Materia System

[Frebaut]

The Boss said it himself in his first pitch of materia in the topic Crafting: OMG fix it IIRC.

OK thank you. I do agree materia weapons should become Rare EX.

[Peregrine]

I will do all materia inlaying for all GS and BS for free. Saying it right now, this just isn't right for crafters to get to double dip on this system.

Battlers now have to pay crafters to start making materia. If they don't pay crafters, they can't make materia. Crafters get to charge whatever they want for the base weapons now. Then if a battler does make a materia and tries to sell it, a crafter will simply pick it up, put it into a weapon, then pass that cost RIGHT back onto a battler with a hefty markup for that crafters' services and combination of materia and quality of weapon. The battler has to pay the crafter twice, and the crafter can pass every last gil's cost of their activity back onto the battler.

NOT ONLY does the battler have to pay the crafter twice, but the battler did 90% of the work and yet the crafter gets 90% of the profits.

It's not right.

[Wynn]

Battlers now have to pay crafters to start making materia. If they don't pay crafters, they can't make materia. Crafters get to charge whatever they want for the base weapons now. Then if a battler does make a materia and tries to sell it, a crafter will simply pick it up, put it into a weapon, then pass that cost RIGHT back onto a battler with a hefty markup for that crafters' services and combination of materia and quality of weapon. The battler has to pay the crafter twice, and the crafter can pass every last gil's cost of their activity back onto the battler.

It's not right.

Isn't that how anything works though? If I'm a contractor doing glass work on someone's home, I buy my materials, in this case glass. I then pass that cost on to the customer for whom I'm doing glass work for. Why wouldn't I?

[Peregrine]

Isn't that how anything works though? If I'm a contractor doing glass work on someone's home, I buy my materials, in this case glass. I then pass that cost on to the customer for whom I'm doing glass work for. Why wouldn't I?

In this example, you are the person that both sells the glass and makes the house. You can thus charge whatever the hell you please for the glass and they have to pay it.

In a balanced system, you would have to purchase the glass from someone who isn't you.

In this case, crafters get to pay themselves with gatherers' and battlers' money.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

In this example, you are the person that both sells the glass and makes the house. You can thus charge whatever the hell you please for the glass and they have to pay it.

In a balanced system, you would have to purchase the glass from someone who isn't you.

In this case, crafters get to pay themselves with gatherers' and battlers' money.

Isn't it crafters' goal to make money? That's the real reason most people craft, also if you're worried that crafters will have too much money, there just needs to be a gil sink for them. Also if I feel like someone is charging too much, I'll just go to another crafter, there's always someone willing to sell their services for less.

[Peregrine]

Isn't it crafters' goal to make money? That's the real reason most people craft, also if you're worried that crafters will have too much money, there just needs to be a gil sink for them. Also if I feel like someone is charging too much, I'll just go to another crafter, there's always someone willing to sell their services for less.

It's industry-wide imbalance. Consider crafters, gatherers, and battlers to be three entities-three corporations.
One corporation gets to charge the others twice for their product. Once then each of the other two wishes to start making their products, and then again when these two have to finish their final products.

That one corporation will own the other two within the end of the fiscal year. So will crafters own gatherers and battlers, as a total entity. Taken as a unit, you can't simply go to another crafter. That crafter inherently benefits from his trade's collective advantage over your trade.

It's about global market balance, not individual observations.

[Wynn]

In this example, you are the person that both sells the glass and makes the house. You can thus charge whatever the hell you please for the glass and they have to pay it.

In a balanced system, you would have to purchase the glass from someone who isn't you.

In this case, crafters get to pay themselves with gatherers' and battlers' money.

No, actually in my example the glass maker is most certainly someone else, otherwise I wouldn't be buying materials at all. I'd be using my own.

A crafter is buying the materia from battle player A's retainer, purchasing the catalyst from harvester player A's retainer, using both to make an enhanced weapon out of their own crafted weapon, and then putting the result up on his retainer, which is then purchased by battle player B.

Plus if player B doesn't like crafter As price, he can go see crafter B or C.

The only way your example is accurate is if said crafter is also a battle class player, and a harvester, and goes to make his own materia/catalysts. And even if that is the case, I fail to see the problem there. It's his loot that he worked to get, same as you or anyone else. They can do what they want with it. Anyone is free to purchase from another retainer that they feel is priced fairer, or make their own.

I mean look at your sig. You have pretty much all three class archetypes leveled to 50. You'll be making everything yourself. So will a lot of people. And if you are that concerned that greedy crafters are going to band together and rape the masses, fight the good fight and undercut their prices. You of all people have the ability to do just that.

I, however, think your fears in this instance are a bit more akin to wearing a tin foil hat.

[Lerris]

In this example, you are the person that both sells the glass and makes the house. You can thus charge whatever the hell you please for the glass and they have to pay it.

In a balanced system, you would have to purchase the glass from someone who isn't you.

In this case, crafters get to pay themselves with gatherers' and battlers' money.

Crafter still has to purchase raw materials/finished gear + materia + catalyst. We're not selling the same sword twice unless we've bought it back.

What is needed is a mechanism where a crafter can join materia to gear while it is in the owner's possession. Something like the current bazaar repairs ( which also need to be improved as mentioned elswhere so that buyers can provide their own repair materials ).

[Peregrine]

Crafter still has to purchase raw materials/finished gear + materia + catalyst. We're not selling the same sword twice unless we've bought it back.

And that doesn't matter one bit, because the crafter can turn around and re-charge whoever they sell that materia'd gear to. Again, battlers and gatherers end up paying everything they ever charge crafters, and more.

Crafters have two avenues of profit from this system, and they are the MOST IMPORTANT ONES: the FIRST and the LAST.
You can't START materia unless you buy something from a crafter. HELLO profit.
You can't USE materia unless you get something from a crafter. HELLO profit.

Again, this is absolutely ridiculous. It can't happen.

[OMEGA_HACK]

I would be flabbergasted if a crafter tried to make me pay him a ridiculous amount of gil to add a piece of materia to my weapon. One big thing being that's its a 100% chance to work, there is no failure. So why would I pay you more for your rank when the next joe-schmoe at the required rank can do it just as well as you?

Oh so the crafter says he has the best gear, well that doesn't matter because it would still be 100% and the crafter doesn't determine if the materia is HQ, I believe HQ is determined by what the wearer of the weapon/armor does to get the AP to 100%. (At least that is how I read it, maybe I read it wrong)

I agree with Peregrine on this one, and if anyone on Trabia needs materia infused to something an Armorer or a Blacksmith can do I will do it free of charge; just have the mats.

Also on the note of R/EX-ing the items why not have something like an AUG (Augmented) icon instead: Basically it would restrict the person from being able to put it up for sale in the market wards, but allows them to put it up for sale in their bazaar instead, it can also still be traded obviously. That way the MWards don't get even more convoluted with unnecessary complications like mentioned above.