Materia System

[Duelle]

Sounds annoying and unnecessary, I really don't like this. The last part that says "high risk failure" just makes it even worse.

Please don't implement it.

The only positive here is that it doesn't seem like gear with materia on it is sellable. Otherwise you're going to see stuff like "WTS Iron Longsword +5 (as in, 5 STR materia successfully attached to it), 12 mil" or something like that. Enchants per L2 made pricing very very stupid.

See how easy this is? You should quit while you're ahead.

Right, because SE already made that full length FFVI motion picture, and all those sequels and prequels that conveniently seem to come out the moment SE has an economic flub.

[Malakhim]

You guys remember skill up parties in FFXI, right?

Well here they are again. That simple.

Also, gatherers are in THE highest position of power. No catalyst = no materia grafting, and who are the only ones who can collect catalysts again?

[Peregrine]

You guys remember skill up parties in FFXI, right?

Well here they are again. That simple.

Also, gatherers are in THE highest position of power. No catalyst = no materia grafting, and who are the only ones who can collect catalysts again?

No way. They would shoot themselves in the foot by not AVOIDING grinding and farming for this system. It's poor game design, and archaic MMO content.

Just because gathering mats are required doesn't mean the gatherers who gather them will mean anything. See: the current crafting system in its entirety where gatherers are treated like common ants because their products are so oversupplied and common.

[Drex]

Sounds annoying and unnecessary, I really don't like this. The last part that says "high risk failure" just makes it even worse.

Please don't implement it.

"high risk failure????.... omg pls no.. i want easy things!!" --;

Please implement it.

[Cairdeas]

"high risk failure????.... omg pls no.. i want easy things!!" --;

Please implement it.

Its only high risk if your trying to add a second materia slot.

[Drex]

Its only high risk if your trying to add a second materia slot.

I know, I was j\k

From my point of view: more risk more fun

[Betelgeuzah]

"high risk failure????.... omg pls no.. i want easy things!!" --;

Please implement it.

At the end of the day it simply sounds like you're gonna have to work more after a certain threshold to attain better results.

In other words to apply two materia into equipment, you not only need to gather two materia but also due to the added value may need to work further to see the results. It's not a linear curve for effort/reward, but until we see exactly what is lost after a failure and what the rate is we won't know just how much the required effort goes up in the process.

I guess there could have been better ways to handle this, but as long as we don't have to deal with the craziness that is upgrading equipment in Korean MMO's (which can go up to +7 quality with .5% success rate...) this should be fine.

[Amsai]

Its posts like the one Byohne made that make me remember why I love SE. Seriously, this is one of the most awesome things about this game I have heard to date. And hell yes keep the name materia.

[Peregrine]

Here's a running list of potential problems that would need attention given the info we have. This is made with the idea that the devs want feedback on this system from the players.

1. Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.

2. Jobs that have already hit the level cap sustain massive reductions in the amount of hits they perform on a given weapon or in a given armor set, relegating attachment to gear to a "grinding" activity like levelling or farming, which are either impossible for some or not fun for most.

3. Materia growing appears to be an activity that favors current unaddressed problems in the game: players who farm shards with bots will now have more incentive to continue this activity. Let's not pretend that shard bots don't exist, or allow a system that further rewards that behavior.

4. This system will eventually settle out to what outcome is common and what is rare as a means to distinguish materia on gear. For battlers, that rare event seems to be HQ'ing materia as their mechanism for power. For crafters, it seems to be that rare double materia attach. Where is the power-outcome for gatherers to give them equal weight?

5. The system feels like an archaic MMO farm or grind activity, which this game must avoid if it is to rise above.

6. INVENTORY!

[Amineri]

Here's a running list of potential problems that would need attention given the info we have. This is made with the idea that the devs want feedback on this system from the players.

1. Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.

I see your point, but what are the alternatives? If you simply allow items to be turned into materia without the 'attachment points', a single crafter could EASILY flood the market with materia. Just think about how many walnut masks have already been vendored. In the end it's a somewhat messy compromise. It doesn't provide a complete item sink for the TONS of items being produced, but it also doesn't flood the market with materia from day one.

2. Jobs that have already hit the level cap sustain massive reductions in the amount of hits they perform on a given weapon or in a given armor set, relegating attachment to gear to a "grinding" activity like levelling or farming, which are either impossible for some or not fun for most.

I have seen any mention of how the attachment points are generated, just "by use". If it's a conversion of the old physical level xp system, then people at rank cap can just as easily (if not more so) generate attachment points.

3. Materia growing appears to be an activity that favors current unaddressed problems in the game: players who farm shards with bots will now have more incentive to continue this activity. Let's not pretend that at this very moment, most players in those small caves and tucked away dungeon corners out there in Eorzea aren't actually there. If materia growing is grindable, there are already bots for that, and RMT will be all over it.

I see your point. I really do. However, as has been pointed out many times before, not every design decision made by SE can revolve around limiting botting / RMT activities.
I would really hope that this the materia production is not controlled by botters and RMTers, but I can't think of another permutation of the system that doesn't do so in just the same way.

4. This system will eventually settle out to what outcome is common and what is rare as a means to distinguish materia on gear. For battlers, that rare event seems to be HQ'ing materia as their mechanism for power. For crafters, it seems to be that rare double materia attach. Where is the power-outcome for gatherers to give them equal weight?

Well, I haven't seen an answer as to my question about whether crafters and gatherers can gain attachment points for the tools and armor that they use. So far everyone is assuming (perhaps correctly) that the gaining of attachment points and creation of materia is a combat-only thing. So far the only thing I've seen pointing in that direction is the use of the word 'weapons' instead of 'weapons and tools'.

I really do see your points, and they definitely are valid points, in my personal opinion . I guess I'm just not seeing the alternatives.

If crafters can turn items into materia without the 'attachment' point system, it puts all the power into the crafters hands, and gives nothing for the combat classes to do at all. With the rate at which crafters can turn out items (and hence materia), the materia market would be glutted further. Said system would still benefit botters and RMTers. Further, while attachment point forming may be 'grindy', it does provide some motivation / ability to continue progressing after reaching the rank cap. Finally, while conversion of weapons does provide incentive to use "less then optimal" gear, it also provides an actual use for that gear, and the game definitely needs some form of item sink.

What are the alternatives?