New NMs

[Carmillia]

Seriously... this isn't about "HARD" NMs. This isn't about making all drops come from 21-24hr NMs. This isn't about botting, or camping or TIME SINKS. This is about making gear rare, and this is ONE of the ways to do it.

Difficult instances eventually will not be difficult.
Low drop rate will always remain.
Time limitations will always remain.
Competition will always remain in 21-24hr NMs.

If 10 LSs are doing the same "rare gear" instance every week.. In a month, half the server is gear out.
If 10 LSs were competing over 1 mob every 21-24 hrs.. One LS will get lucky off the terrible drop rate and claim, and 3-4 people will have gear in a month...

This is about making gear rare, for the 27th time. Thanks.

Well the very first post was about 24hr HNM so we are discussing pros and cons of such content. That being said, I have to say that I agree that difficult content will eventually lose its challenge the more and more you do it but I don't think that the 21-24hr windowed HNM is the answer to that. I think that if you want some rare gears that are mostly for hardcore players, the relic system of FFXI is more the way to go.
Casuals will still be able to access to that (I said access not actually get them in any reasonnable time frame), camping haters won't be against it (as I am for example) as it is about collecting items for upgrades. Hardcore players will have them far far far before any casuals (So they feel special). Collecting those things don't seem to be a boring (although some sort of time sink) thing to me (you have to do something to get it and no need to wait for a long time even if a short cession).

[Scarface]

Well the very first post was about 24hr HNM so we are discussing pros and cons of such content. That being said, I have to say that I agree that difficult content will eventually lose its challenge the more and more you do it but I don't think that the 21-24hr windowed HNM is the answer to that. I think that if you want some rare gears that are mostly for hardcore players, the relic system of FFXI is more the way to go.
Casuals will still be able to access to that (I said access not actually get them in any reasonnable time frame), camping haters won't be against it (as I am for example) as it is about collecting items for upgrades. Hardcore players will have them far far far before any casuals (So they feel special). Collecting those things don't seem to be a boring (although some sort of time sink) thing to me (you have to do something to get it and no need to wait for a long time even if a short cession).

I agree it's not the only way of doing it. For people to frankly say that it has no pro's completely throws me in a toilet bowl swirl.

Yes, I am. I know you just assume everyone who disagrees with your views is not playing, but that's wrong. I play near daily, since release. I know I also used the 'you don't play' card in the last post, so I won't go further into this.

The fact is, despite "everyone" being rich (I personally got measly 17kk, just bought a vintage jester cap yesterday after getting nothing from Broken Water faction NM....again. By the way, faction NM gear is still pretty rare. ), there are RMTs and yes, there ARE people buying gil from RMTs.

Most earth and wind shards in the market are, in fact, being sold by rmt bots. Every once in a while you can spot a group of RMT bots walking around. Cassiopeia Hollow and some caves around the world are RMT botting paradise. I - KNOW - people who ***** bought some gil. I'm pretty sure that if you search around google for a while you will find some RMT site.

RMTs aren't even a problem if they even do exist, honestly.

[Visch]

No I just think it's hilarious how you don't understand the concept of a challenge over having long respawn times.

Do you read? Here I'll help you.

Seriously... this isn't about "HARD" NMs. This isn't about making all drops come from 21-24hr NMs. This isn't about botting, or camping or TIME SINKS. This is about making gear rare, and this is ONE of the ways to do it.

Difficult instances eventually will not be difficult.
Low drop rate will always remain.
Time limitations will always remain.
Competition will always remain in 21-24hr NMs.

If 10 LSs are doing the same "rare gear" instance every week.. In a month, half the server is gear out.
If 10 LSs were competing over 1 mob every 21-24 hrs.. One LS will get lucky off the terrible drop rate and claim, and 3-4 people will have gear in a month...

This is about making gear rare, for the 27th time. Thanks.

There. Please stop bring the same stuff up before reading. Thanks.

Just because somebody figures out a strategy to a fight doesn't mean everyone can do it. I mean I know a few linkshells who can't take down the current NM's without having more than 8 people. A challenge will always be a challenge even with the proper strategy.

No it won't. If someone can kill it once they can kill it a million times.

the relic system of FFXI is more the way to go.

The relic system in XI was completely broken. No "casual" player ever had anywhere near the resources needed to obtain a relic.

The upgrading system is nice though if you know about what they did later with salvage. Instanced drops from 3 things + a decent amount of money = 1 piece of equipment.

But like everything else within a year most people had pieces if not the full set.

Where as things like D ring stayed extremely rare.

[Carmillia]

The relic system in XI was completely broken. No "casual" player ever had anywhere near the resources needed to obtain a relic.

The upgrading system is nice though if you know about what they did later with salvage. Instanced drops from 3 things + a decent amount of money = 1 piece of equipment.

But like everything else within a year most people had pieces if not the full set.

Where as things like D ring stayed extremely rare.

I don't see what you mean by 'broken' for the relic system but I thought you wanted rare gears that can separate you from casuals, I don't have stats but I think that relic weapons were rarer than Dring, no (meaning needs confirmation as I don't really know about that)? As you said, no casual aver had anywhere near having the resssources (hell, even at that time I was hardcore players and never gotten close).

Moreover, I think that casual gamers wouldn't mind (any confirmation on this too please) such a system because they have a shot at it and it does not have all the cons of 21-24hr HNMs. It will just take forever for casuals which is not really a big matter as far as gathering the mats is fun.

I also think the upgrading system is nice but the salvage one was a bit 'too easy': Instanced drop from 3 things + decent amount of money for a piece does not seem to lead to such a rare gear as you want to have. More demanding items (lot more of same item, some very rare items (crafted? so you also have to gather the craft mats), reward from a very difficult fight) for an upgrade and different upgrade stages. Whatever involves being playing in the process is not a problem for casuals (hopefully).