[dev1002] The entire world lacking as a battle environment.

[Xzen]

OJtheLIONKing:

Lazy & stupid is fair game. The number of alleged endgame linkshells on my server with absolutely no concept of even fundamental Battle Regimen mechanics is truly astonishing. They haven't learned because they don't care because when they wipe to an NM it doesn't really matter to them. Sometimes they manage to button mash it down and get a drop, sometimes they rage it and wipe. I cannot see how some sort of meaningful death penalty might help drive them to learn how to play.

Another example of how a lack of a death penalty influences gameplay is the punishing barbs tactic where a few THMs continually attack an enemy with barbs up, wipe, respawn, and charge back in. Pretty lame stuff.

My original post was not meant to be an argument for XP loss, per say, but that's where the direction of the conversation has headed. So be it.

FFXI was slower paced and more tactical in many ways than XIV's more action oriented feel. Under the current battle system, grind system, and leve system, an XP penalty would be more irritating than in XI, i'll grant you that. However, something needs to be implemented to eliminate the suicide zerg tactics as well as motivate people to stay alive.
Perhaps removing equipment damage in general but adding severe equipment damage for death would be a suitable alternative. Something, though, for sure. The for crowd and against crowd have made their points. At this point it's all becoming redundant.

I'd like to add, though (again), that the XP penalty for death in XI brought the world to life. When I saw someone running for their life from a mob (or a train of mobs) it was compassion that would drive me to make the effort to help them, even putting myself at risk to do so. I have yet to encounter a similar situation in XIV. This is partly the fault of the bland and boring and uneventful land of Eorzea, but also due to there being no penalty for death. Without the death penalty there is no thrill for victory. It's all just mechanical. Kill mob, get drop, move on.

My main gripe with XIV is like I said earlier - nothing is on the line, nothing really matters, the world is bland.
When tanking Uraeus i've actually gone AFK while petrified to get a glass of milk and returned to find I was still alive and I still had hate, as I suspected would be the case before leaving my PC. Now how's that for lame?

The only incentive i've had in this game to make improvements in strategy is in how to use less and less people to kill NMs and kill them faster.

I pretty much agree with everything aside from the death penalty adding anything but I admit that is completely subjective. One thing about the BRs. They suck and aren't worth the time to use and the NMs are ridiculously easy. Especially now that they have been nerfed. We were taking them down with only 8 people before why did they make them less challenging? The problem isn't with the lack of harsh death penalty by far. The actual content is both sparse and too easy.

[Grimm]

OJtheLIONKing:







I'd like to add, though (again), that the XP penalty for death in XI brought the world to life. When I saw someone running for their life from a mob (or a train of mobs) it was compassion that would drive me to make the effort to help them, even putting myself at risk to do so. I have yet to encounter a similar situation in XIV. This is partly the fault of the bland and boring and uneventful land of Eorzea, but also due to there being no penalty for death. Without the death penalty there is no thrill for victory. It's all just mechanical. Kill mob, get drop, move on.

This 100% I don't know how many times I felt I had to save someone as a PLD when they /help on a mob or agroed even if it cost me my own life. But then again that also shows how close the community factor was in XI compared to XIV where the only way to see a community is to join a LS. I had so many friends out side of LSes in XI. In XIV I have maybe 1 or 2. The community system is flawed in XIV I think due to leve's and no penalty on death. I remember a old interview about XIV where Tanaka said the concept of XIV was not party, camp, and pull. It was party, move, and fight. Fighting on the move with strategy WHERE IS THAT ASPECT?!.

[Xzen]

This 100% I don't know how many times I felt I had to save someone as a PLD when they /help on a mob or agroed even if it cost me my own life. But then again that also shows how close the community factor was in XI compared to XIV where the only way to see a community is to join a LS. I had so many friends out side of LSes in XI. In XIV I have maybe 1 or 2. The community system is flawed in XIV I think due to leve's and no penalty on death. I remember a old interview about XIV where Tanaka said the concept of XIV was not party, camp, and pull. It was party, move, and fight. Fighting on the move with strategy WHERE IS THAT ASPECT?!.

Ummm I have seen the exact thing you are saying does not happen in XIV happen several times. I've had people in my groups stop to heal some one that was soloing a leve. I've seen people stop and raise people. When I personally heal some one thats in trouble I have asked them if they needed some help on their leve or with what ever they were doing. I've had some one do the same for me. Maybe it's just a bad community on your server?

[Kimahri]

Okay. I thought this was funny and since it just happened I was thinking to myself; "What better an example than this?"

I just completed Behest in Nanawa Mines. Antling & Bog were the targets. Some douchebag Gladiator ran into the lair and pulled the group of Antling's in the middle of the mine......Which in turn pulled all the Gnat's, Yarzon's, and Footpads........When I asked him why the hell he did that when there was a group closer to us, he said "Who cares? It's not like we lost any XP/SP."

This is what I'm talking about. People are acting like zombies when it comes to leveling up or anything else. They're pulling and killing like a rinse & repeat cycle. Now do you see how I feel, Xzen? There isn't no strategy. Even if you and your linkshell have used XI as a reference to build your own strategy, there are many many many people who just don't give a damn as long as their level increases. It'll only get worse.

[Xzen]

Okay. I thought this was funny and since it just happened I was thinking to myself; "What better an example than this?"

I just completed Behest in Nanawa Mines. Antling & Bog were the targets. Some douchebag Gladiator ran into the lair and pulled the group of Antling's in the middle of the mine......Which in turn pulled all the Gnat's, Yarzon's, and Footpads........When I asked him why the hell he did that when there was a group closer to us, he said "Who cares? It's not like we lost any XP/SP."

This is what I'm talking about. People are acting like zombies when it comes to leveling up or anything else. They're pulling and killing like a rinse & repeat cycle. Now do you see how I feel, Xzen? There isn't no strategy. Even if you and your linkshell have used XI as a reference to build your own strategy, there are many many many people who just don't give a damn as long as their level increases. It'll only get worse.

But I've seen people do the exact same thing in FFXI and not even care. That guy would be an idiot regardless.

[zaviermhigo]

Yeah linkshells are terrible in this game for that reason, if you join a random one and go out and do nms with them they will most likely not be proficient in battle regimens, and if they are they will only use defense down, even on a mob that could easily be nuked down.

[Xzen]

Yeah linkshells are terrible in this game for that reason, if you join a random one and go out and do nms with them they will most likely not be proficient in battle regimens, and if they are they will only use defense down, even on a mob that could easily be nuked down.

BRs are worthless. They need to come up with something better.

[Mudd]

BRs are worthless. They need to come up with something better.

How are they worthless? If you can manage an 8 man, its devastating..

[Filtiarne]

I think what he means is, why waste time coordinating a BR when he can just mindlessly button mash for 30min until it rages and wipes the party. Then he will just get right up and try again. What you need to understand when arguing with someone like this is that they just simply DON'T get it, and never will. Performing the same action, over and over and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity, yet I see it all the time in this game as well as other games that a drunk mongoloid can not only survive in, but shamefully actually accomplish something in. We can try to pound the reasons upon them but they just turn a deaf ear like most of the younger generation is prone to. If its not handed to me, its not worth having.

[Xzen]

I think what he means is, why waste time coordinating a BR when he can just mindlessly button mash for 30min until it rages and wipes the party. Then he will just get right up and try again. What you need to understand when arguing with someone like this is that they just simply DON'T get it, and never will. Performing the same action, over and over and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity, yet I see it all the time in this game as well as other games that a drunk mongoloid can not only survive in, but shamefully actually accomplish something in. We can try to pound the reasons upon them but they just turn a deaf ear like most of the younger generation is prone to. If its not handed to me, its not worth having.

My LS has no problems taking down any of the NMs. If you think you need BRs to take them down you probably haven't even fought one. I've also been around since UO launched playing MMOs. I made it clear that SE needs to either make the BRs better or give us something else. A personal attack just shows you have run out of any real points. I've even seen the people with no skill manage to make it to end game in FFXI. If you're as hardcore as you like to pretend why not just delete your character to perma-death it every time you die? By your logic you don't because you're a sissy that wants everything handed to them.