9 Coke required now? (or other)

[Reika]

Reason for this change.

I think that upgrade is a bit much. 3 or 4 maybe, but 9? Considering how many tokens one costs, dungeons give too little tokens. But then again, they take too many items now.
This is also being discussed on the Japanese forums (for anyone that cares). http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1202413

In any case, it was a fruitless attempt, because people have cleared winding coils of bahamut already, over 100, and are getting ilvl90 alagan gear. No one is going to bother gathering the mats for these crafted items when you can get by easily with Militia crap until you get darklight from doing dungeons, which is all you need + relic weapon which also do not need ilvl70 weapons anymore, and are automatically better than the crafted weapons.



This just makes it more justified for crafted gear to be better than dropped crap. Slightly boost the stats of the gear that needs materials that need these materials so that HQ stats are slightly better than comparable dropped items and it would be good to leave like this. But it still would be too damn many unless they add some other method of getting them, like guildleves (created a thread about that).

Didn't even change for official launch. I don't think they'll have anything for us for a while. Get ready to spam the $*@# out of wanderer's palace, if spamming the same damn thing all day is what you fancy. I believe that got old in 1.0 tho.....

added suggestion:

This is still a terrible way to go about slowing down crafters, but I've been thinking about some things at work. Ways to simply make it harder to get the required stats these without just increasing the amount of coke etc needed.

First thing they need to do is raise the amount of craftmanship the base material needs. I didnt think about it before, but 347 craftmanship can be obtained without food, and I dont think that should happen. However, instead of rebalancing all the gear stats, raise the required craftmanship to 375 to 380, possibly up to 390. This will make the crafter need all the best crafter goodies and help from the cullinarians. This in turn will make cullinarians food more worthy as well.
The same needs to be done with the control requiremenr on the 2 star mats. I easily have over 340 control without food, thus making the cullinarians best control foid which is 1 star worth very little to create. The control requirement should be set to 355 to 360. This in turn will make the fish that are actually used in the highest craftmanship and control food more worth it.

This method is by far more thought out than se's forcing people to spam the same dungeon hundreds of times ti make a set of gear, and they can go ahead ane set the required item amount back to 1 or 2. It already takes twelve knows how long to get ones gear to the level needed to make the gear at the current stat requirements.

Additional pictures and fun facts

Amador keep gives 40 tomes of mythology per run, and you can get 300 per week, Look at these itmes and their costs and guess how fast you can replace crafted ilvl70 gear, and note you don't need any crafted ilvl70 gear to do this dungeon.

2 weeks of dungeon spamming for the tome limit

same amount of time for the boots

The next week

2 weeks later

You may be wondering "Well, 2 weeks is a long time", well just factor in how long it will take you to level up enough crafts to have a decent chance at HQing the crafted items to just equal darklight, and how long it will take you to craft the HQ job specific gear and create all the materia you need to reach the stats neccicarry to even make the stuff. And then the time it would take to level up the battle classes you need to start running the dungeons, and get enough tomes to get enough materials to make the stuff. You are looking at freakin forever right there, when all you really should do is level up battle classes, get dark light, get ilvl90 job gear, and call it good.

You can look up all recipes on certain sites, but almost all rose gold and astral jewelery costs you 2250 tomes worth of tokens each, a few of them take 1125 tomes worth. All a waste of time, especially the 2250 tome ones, when you can get darklight jewelry for only 375 tomes each :/

Now lets compare some things.

The cost of making vanya pants vs jut getting your job pants after 3 weeks.


Better to do this than to:

Spend 3375 tokens making these. It's a Joke and a waste of time.

Stats of the HQ vanya robe of healing vs your job robe

So why would you bother spending 2250 making the robe and hat when you can just like, wait and get these two babies after 5 weeks. Theres no reason to become a mascocist for these crafted items, because you ALSO have to put materia in them for them to actually be better than darklight, and materia doesnt grow on trees, that stuff takes time and sacrificial gear to make. So you know what will supplement you just fine while you wait to get those fancy gears, while also costing you a shit ton less tomes and time?

Helm and body combined, would be 2250 tomes worth to get vanya head/body combo.

A shit ton less than 3375 tomes yes?

Also a shit ton less than 1125 tomes.

So there you have it. This is the shit SE did by their attempt to "prolong the content". They didn't prolong jack, they took a Darklight Shaft and rammed it the ass of every crafter out there. Hell, I can pick up myself a piece of Ilvl90 gear this week, all before making enough tomes to make silly ilvl70 gear lol! Content longevity balancing failed, Crafters shafted!


Oh, I forgot one for all you. Heres the current prices on my server.



300,000 is 3mil after redenomination, and I guarantee a NQ darksteel ingot was NOT worth 3 mil. These people are smart, and know that the change jacked up the prices for their hoarded goods. Not like I'm wasting my money on those tho. HQ finished are pretty much priceless, not because they are good, but because people are smart enough to just get darklight.

Examples of a proper balance solution

being SE, I think it is because they just don't know how to balance, so here is one good way:

Change the base recipe of the mats for some to require 2 and some to require 3.

Metals: 3
Leather and cloth:2
Alchemy products: 2

Adjust the required materials of items that require only 1 item.

Heavy darksteel armor: add one darksteel ingot, one rose gold ingot, and one hard hypogryph leather. Same with legs.

heavy darksteel gauntlets add one rose gold ingot.

Vanya robes add one more Vanya silk and one rose gold ingot.

Vanya hats +one vanya silk.

Darksteel helm, mitt gaunts, and boots leave @ 1 ingot

Darksteel Haub add + hard hippogryph leather and 1 vanya silk

Pants are fine as is. Belts continue to require only 1 item.

Doing some simple math with this change, heavy darksteel armor does not make any significant change in price, only - 25 tomes, but now everything else drops down to not only be fair in how much you have to grind, but also more difficult to craft. Most pieces will require more than one crafter geared.

Another possible way is to think back to the beginning of 1.0 and how crafts were then. They actually had WAY more parts and were more tedious to make than even these. Instead of simply adding an extra mat, they could make a new part for that mat instead. EX:
Heavy Darksteel Armor
1 Darksteel breastplate = 1 darksteel ingot + 1 darksteel plate
1 Darksteel backplate = 1 darksteel ingot + 1 darksteel plates
1 Hypogryph leather padding = 1 hard hyppogryph leather + 2 twinthread
1 rosegold engravings = 1 rosegold ingot + 2 rosegold nugget

Thats just another route I think they should do for the 'end game' armors.




Important:
You may look at a legacy player like me and think it doesn't take that much time, but know that I had countless of mats from various levels saved up, as well as everything to 50 already, as well as almost 100 gr3 cracked materia and almost 80 grIV cracked materia that I turned into whatever I wanted to skip MUCH of the spiritbonding phase. It still took even me a decent amount of time, given that I have a job and sleep, to gather what I still needed AND create my crafter/gatherer AF gear AND do the battle content + Story. Imagine if I had to go out and do it all over again. I would have best spent my time leveling up battle classes and focusing on primals and bahamut than to jack around with crafting and gathering.

[Xakery]

some of my free company mates are saying the same... maybe it is a mistake? Seems a bit much :/

[AriaS]

Seems very high. Vanya trousers for DRG require 27 of Coke, Animal Fat and one more item which seems too high. Over 3000 tokens to make one.

[Reika]

In wanderers palace, one boss dropped 5 alagan thingies, and I think the 2nd one dropped 10 alagan thingies, but it probably dropped 5 too. Takes 125 alagan thingies per mat. This is pretty much SE telling us they don't want us crafting this stuff. This is also SE telling us they plan on going back to dungeon spamming for crap, even tho they said there wouldn't be dungeon spamming. I guess they chose to prolong content with abysmal drop rates after all. I didn't get to finish wanderers palace because Tonberry king tore us the $@&$ up and we ran out of time, but I'm willing to bet Darklight gear is still on its < 2% drop rates that it was in 1.0.

[Laevetine]

This was extremely disheartening for me. Really it takes nine just to make one? Not to mention it requires 347 craftsmanship, even with food that is no small task.

I would really like to see a response to this. If the Allagan stones are the only way to get these materials then it really needs to be lowered either the cost per item or the number needed. Most synths requires multiple parts so you are needing upwards 18-36 materials at 135 stones a pop? You can easily deck out in Darklight gear in a shorter amount of time.

Again would really like to see a response on this one way or the other.

Thanks

[DimerNL]

Wanderer's palace gave 5 for boss1 , 10 for boss2 and 35 tokens for boss3. So that's 50 tokens total. Why the hell would someone use 3K tokens to make 1 piece of gear that's easily replaced with DL gear that requires less points And is usable by multiple classes.

[ogopogo]

A quick question, does this go for all the material that require tokens? (Potash, Animal Fat, etc) And how much does it cost to use those token on DL gear instead, is it less or more expansive than the crafted gears?

[Reika]

A quick question, does this go for all the material that require tokens? (Potash, Animal Fat, etc) And how much does it cost to use those token on DL gear instead, is it less or more expansive than the crafted gears?

I believe Darklight legs, not heavy darklight, are like 800 or 900some, meanwhile, weaver vanya pants all take one of those mats each, or 2 and one, that makes 27 you need to buy from mor dhona, 27x125.....

[DimerNL]

I believe Darklight legs, not heavy darklight, are like 800 or 900some, meanwhile, weaver vanya pants all take one of those mats each, or 2 and one, that makes 27 you need to buy from mor dhona, 27x125.....

Iirc the DL that takes up 2 slots like the cowl and heavy DL stuff is like 1300 points (ish)...

And YES, that goes for All former hamlet items, potash , animal fat etc etc.

[Picoman]

I honestly cant believe this. It has to be a mistake. Im gutted.