Thread: Super General Discussion 2.0 - Always offering a happy, fun time~!

Originally Posted by Niqote

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Hahahaha! I'm lovin' it! d-(^_^ )-b /twothumbsup

Originally Posted by Niqote

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I love it too.
Approved,

Alright… I finally took some time to write another response, so… Here it goes. I apologize for the length of it upfront. I’ve also merged quotes from several posts into this response, so i won’t blame you if it’s confusing at times. (^_^; )

Originally Posted by Sylkis

I believe that this is because of the DPS checks in endgame, top raiders will say how high DPS is necessary to clear (which is true for endgame). The players that tune in to these comments will then pass on this belief to others, and at some point people will believe it applies to the whole game.
Something like:
If you don't have X dps you can't clear endgame (truth)
-> If you don't have X dps you can't clear endgame and therefore are bad
-> If you don't have X dps you are bad

Originally Posted by Sylkis

At (current) endgame, it really is that. If you don't have X DPS, the boss explodes and you can't pass until you have geared up as a PLD by waiting a few weeks... OR switch to a higher DPS tank.

And that’s basically the problem i have with the gaming community in this “age”. (Geez… Saying it like that really makes me feel old. /cry) Right now, what people are saying on the internet, during live streams, in-game, on the forums, etc is being take at face value. As the only way to do things. A holy grail, if you will.

We are talking about people who at the top of their game and beyond. These people put every ounce of their willpower and skill into being the best of the best. They know how play their classes, they have the determination to go at it for hours on end every day of the week and they can figure out mechanics without watching video’s (since they are basically setting the tactics people can try and make their own).

They managed to clear Alexander floors at the bare minimum iLevel. I take my hat off to them, because they can achieve something i could only dream of. It’s something i can never achieve myself. I only have respect for these guys and gals.

But, what i can stand are people who think that they have to follow them to the dot and when they don’t succeed right this instance, they go on a rampage/crusade on the forums. I mean.... “A Paladin Exodus”? Please… I know that the Paladin is not in a good spot, but that’s just silly. They can throw all the numbers at me they like, saying that there’s no place for a Paladin (or any other class for that matter) just because they don’t deal as much DPS their counterparts or can’t soak/heal as much damage as their counterparts. It doesn’t matter in the end.

Play to the best of your abilities and make the most of it. If you can’t do it right now, take a step back and think. What are you doing that could be improved? If you are that determined to clear the toughest content in the game, then get your act together and work for it! There are other before you who have cleared it, so it is possible with the currently available gear. Not dealing enough damage and your hitting enrage? People are still dying all over the place?

Gear up, learn from your mistakes and practice, practice, practice. Take that frustration from wiping and use it to push that wall until it crumbles at your feet, clearing a path to victory. That’s how you can get satisfaction from your achievement. Not by simply complaining about it on the forums.

If you are really THAT determined, you’ll make changes in order to reach that little bit higher. Even if it means that you should switch classes.

But, do not expect everyone to do that. That is for them to decide, not “you”.

Nobody likes to be left behind, but never change who you are or force others to do so as well.

I for one will not forsake Paladin, just because people think it’s not “suited” for Alexander Savage floor 3 and 4. I will clear Alexander with my own strength and skill, even if it means that i have to gear up some more or need more time to clear it.

I’ve managed to get this far with my own skill and that of my friends. So, i’m certain we can take on the next challenge they throw at us.

Originally Posted by Sylkis

But it's really depressing if you love your job but your team has to wait because the boss explodes because your job doesn't do enough DPS, unless your team started raiding late.

The funny thing is that it’s not like that i’m in love with my job as Paladin. It’s one hell of a burden to be a tank in a party. I’ve cracked several times due to the weight of it. But, i am proud and passionate of what i’ve accomplished as a Paladin and i won’t let someone sully that.

Trust me when i say that i fully agree to what you are saying. I’ve been at that point in an encounter a lot of times as well. Failing a duty simple because you (as a team) lacked the DPS to clear the duty before the enrage. It’s extremely frustrating… But, we soldiered on. Maybe not the same day, but we did. In the end we did clear it and there was much rejoicing.

But, if you ask me “What makes a good player?”, i’d say:

If you pick yourself up after falling down, not quitting at the sight of that massive wall you have to overcome, learning from you mistakes and keep on trying till you succeed… That’s what makes you a good player.

There’s always going to be someone who’s better than you, but do not let that get to you. Set your own goals and be sure to follow them through.

There is no shame in losing, because there are no real losers if you are giving it your best. There is also no shame in admitting that a certain goal is out of your reach. Adjust your goals, or the timeframe in which you want to achieve it.

These words lie very close to my heart. So close, that it reminded me of something that happened in real life where i was confronted with the same type of situation.

I had to stop writing for a little bit to collect my thoughts, because my “emotions were running high” so to speak...

Originally Posted by Sylkis

I think that the impatient behaviour comes from having to repeat the dungeons weekly and trying to get it over with as soon as possible.

That might be true, but that might not be the case for one or more party members. If people don’t communicate with each other and simply “do”, they should expect that not everyone will be able to agree with “you”.

And actually, i’m fine with that. But, at the same time, i do take the group into account while doing it. I can tell if a group can handle certain pulls, but there are still moments where i will not overreach and pull what i feel comfortable with. Even if they tell me to pull more.

But, if they want me to pull more, than you only have to ask me. If i am confident that i can handle the bigger pull, i’ll do it. However, if i say “No” then i expect the rest of the group to honor that as well and not pull on their own accord.

Originally Posted by Dgsoil

I've actually gotten a tank do that pull and healed through it, but it wasn't a fun experience for me, I was basically out of mana and had everything on cooldown. But I get your point, pushing limits can be fun with friends, but please god don't try this stuff with three random people in DF especially without a warning first x.x

I totally agree with this. But, since i play both as a tank as well as a healer, i see a lot of things that people do differently. For instance, when i’m healing and i see a tank pull a lot of mobs, most tank won’t pop a skill like Hallowed Ground or Holmgang to soak the initial damage spike.

If (as a tank) i know i’m going to get a large group, i will pop Hallowed Ground so that the healer doesn’t have to worry about healing me and (f.i.) can help with the DPS if they feel like it.

For some reason, i’m getting the feeling that i’m easier to heal than most tanks you come across in the DF.

One of the reasons is that when i’m healing, i’m paying close attention at the damage tanks take so that i can decide when it’s a good time to pop Cleric Stance. I’ve seen so many tanks where i just can’t get a firm grip on when they a lot of damage. Just when i think that it’s safe to pop Cleric Stance, they would take a lot of damage, resulting in me having to remove Cleric Stance again.

On the other side i don’t seem to take a lot of damage as a Paladin, and healers can DPS longer. But, that might just be my own perspective on it.

Originally Posted by Niqote

Whenever a tank takes many mobs at a time, I am very glad. It's not really the speed of the dungeon... but just it's more engaging when you have many mobs (or rather, you need to concentrate to survive).

I agree, to a certain extend. What i don’t really feel like, is being on edge the entire night, having to give it my all just to keep hate with every encounter. That’s because i’ll be spent by the end of the duty (or the one after that).

I want to relax every once and awhile as well. (-_-; )

Originally Posted by Niqote

And if we happen to have a wipe - then usually there is just a polite 'I'm sorry' and 'Don't worry about it' in Japanese or auto translate.

Yeah, when i mess up. I’ll be sure to own up to my mistakes and apologize to the group. I’m not the person to point fingers at others. It was my mistake, so i take the blame for it myself.

And i don’t care of someone else makes a mistake either. We’re human beings afteral and we make mistakes. It’s a simple as that. No use arguing about it (while we’re still in the duty)...

Originally Posted by Sylkis

This is what happens when people do things they don't want to do but they need to do... they get grumpy...its like working.

I blame it on expert roulette being the most efficient way to obtain tomes, and tomes are like money. Like real jobs, you choose between fun and low wages or unfun and high wages ... and most people choose the latter.

But it doesn't have to be that way! Just make multiple content equally efficient in tomes and people will rotate between content so they won't feel like that ... too quickly.

I’m thinking that’s exactly what Yoshida wants to do right, when he told us that next patches will only introduce 2 dungeons (instead of 3). So that they can focus on a more variety of content for us to do then just capping our Tomes by running dungeons over and over again.

And to be honest? I’m looking forward to experiencing other kinds of content, like the Airship Exploration.

Originally Posted by Sylkis

I have played another MMO where they had a randomly generated dungeon with keys and doors etc (and its not XI or WoW) and it worked out pretty well. It was really cool - you entered with no items or gear and you had to find stuff within the dungeons (and it was fairly easy) but you could only carry a limited amount into the next stage. It got progressively harder, with bosses on set floors.

I guess they are sticking with the narrow hallway model of doing things though...

This is exactly the type of content i HOPE they will add somewhere in the 3.x patch cycle. FFXIV really needs content like this next to the Dungeons, Trials, 24-man Raids and 8-man End-game Raids.

Originally Posted by Sylkis

I think capping tomes to do endgame is really unhealthy for the players.

That’s why i’m actually happy that they haven’t increased the weekly cap of the Esoteric Tomes yet. Because, there will be people who will feel obligated to cap their Tomes every week, as fast as they can.

I “am” basically one of those people.

I really want to gear my classes as best as they possibly can, so that it will make the next encounter easier. But, that’s because i don’t want to be a burden on my team.

Right now, we’re not raiding, so i’m taking things easy because i was starting to get burned out. I’ve been grinding like this since the beginning of 2.0 and it starting to get to me. I needed some time to clear my head. Play other games i still haven’t touched yet.

Today, i finally wanted to log in, grab my level 53 Bard and do something within the game. I didn’t really feel like queuing up for a dungeon. Just, get my stacks of Daily Hunt Marks and go out hunting. Take on FATE’s while i was at it and when i would find a sidequest i still haven’t done yet, it would pick it up as well.

I was having fun. Got the level 52 and 54 Class quest for my Bard done when i got to level 54. After clearing those quests, i’d set out into world and give the Wanderer’s Minuet a shot (since so many people were complaining about it). Studied the Tooltips of the skills and dove into a few FATE’s in order to get a good feel for it. (Switched a few skills around to see what would feel more natural to me)

No pressure… Just taking my sweet time and having fun in the process. That’s what it’s all about in the end, right?

Originally Posted by Sylkis

If they add a decent repeatable reward then it would becomes the new roulette... That might not be bad, introduce a new roulette that is twice as hard and give twice as much tomes. Oh wait we would just stop going after 2-3 days...

They really got themselves trapped when they put in vertical progression and weekly caps I think.

-They can't give out more tomes because people would stop playing after capping
-They can't give out better gear because it affects endgame and people in endgame would clear and stop playing

->They can't make content harder because it needs to give more rewards but they can't give more rewards because theres only tomes and ilvl gear to give due to vertical progression, and they can't give more of that. One possibility would be to lock pretty glamours behind hard content, but think of how people would react to that...

Personally, i don’t think that vertical progression isn’t bad in a general sense of it. But, i do think that the vertical progression is a tad too steep, since we are replacing gear almost right after we got an upgrade. It wouldn’t hurt to add more horizontal progression within the gear we collect. Add more secondary stats, or even introduce tertiary stats like “Improved Refresh Effect”, “Improved Block Rate”, “Added Haste Effect”, etc.

Collecting gear with better stats than the previous one is something a lot of people strive for and it will keep us busy.
But, like you said, a lot of people want to collect glamour gear, minions (especially now with the introduction of the Lord of Verminion coming in 3.1), more Triple Triad Cards, etc. So, there are plenty of things they can use to attract a crowd towards.

At the same time, people will complain that they won’t be able to get certain items and they want to have it accessible for them as well or have them added to the Cash Shop instead. /shiver

Originally Posted by Sylkis

Unfortunately, those side gears like AF will get replaced immediately by higher ilvl gear and so the content will be there without proper rewards ... so the content won't be created... (or they get created and players quickly abandon it)

I don't see an easy solution out of this...

You are right, there is no simple solution for this.

We can only keep on writing down our suggestions on the forums and talk about it with others, so that SE will notice it. If our feelings toward this are met by the majority of the player base, then SE would at least think about ways to introduce a solution to the problem.

It will most likely not change the way things are right now, but hopefully add more means to get the same results and/or adding more horizontal progression to the game.

I mean… What if they add a system where you can improve your character more, instead of the gear you are wearing? Like “Merits” (FFXI)? (It’s just a suggestion, please don’t shoot me for it…)

Originally Posted by Sylkis

Paladins have the lowest hate generation out of the tanks so its not surprising. I get around this by pulling multiple groups so it forces others to use AoE, or play WAR haha…

This isn't an issue with coordination, but DF players will not do so unless necessary. They will have seen a WAR or DRK keep hate fine, and expect PLD to generate the same amount of hate and blame the tank if they don't.

I can tell you that every time i’m with my friends (who’s a Warrior tank) in a raid, i really have to pull all of the stops in order stay ahead with the hate generation. If i miss 1 or 2 Hate Generation combo’s, he’ll take hate from me and it’ll be near impossible to get it back without Provoke.

Nonetheless, we do work well together as a WAR + PLD team.

People tend to blame the Paladin tank not being able to keep hate, when they go completely bonkers with their DPS, or you’re in a duty with 2 or more tanks. You are trying all you can, but suddenly you have a Strength Tank whose generating more hate then you do (while wearing VIT gear, since that’s the gear you normally get as a tank), but doesn’t want to take the role of the MT in the group.

Other than that, most of the complaining happens right here on the forum.

Originally Posted by Niqote

Overall, I do feel that tanks are just too weak. By that i mean they take so much DMG and if it wasn't for abilities - they would not be able to tank at all!

Well… It’s the combination of the stats, gear and skills that makes a Tank. Strip any class from it’s gear and skills and the differences between class is extremely minor. But, it’s like i’ve mentioned earlier. Not every tank is the same.

A lot of tanks focus on Strength and DPS more than lowering damage taken. It might be true that’s easier to hold hate with more Strength, but if you turn off your Shield Oath because you want to deal more damage, you’re just being silly. You are willingly taking more damage because of it. On top of that, they tend to not use all of their defensive skills. I can count the amount of players i’ve met in the DF who actually use Hallowed ground with larger pulls during a dungeon run on 1 hand.

Originally Posted by Niqote

DPS is starting to grind my gears... When I am a healer, I expect to be able to be able to be a healer. Not a DPSer+ keep everyone alive.

It seems to be that every single job is now (forced to be) DPS, it just so happens some also hold the enmity and some heal the HP.

Exactly how i feel about the subject!

As a healer, your primary objective is to keep the party healthy. If you have spare time to DPS, by all means do so. But, it’s not required!

It’s all fine and dandy that you want to DPS, but don’t forget that you are primarily a healer, not a DPS.

The same goes for tanks. Your primary objective is to manage hate, so that the mobs are all focussing at you and not the rest of the party. If you have spare time to add DPS rotations into the mix, then by all means, go right ahead. But, keep in mind that you are a tank and you have skills to prevent / lower damage taken. Use them! Don’t go on a blind DPS rampage.

If you are a DPS, please… For the love of the Twelve, watch the aggro you generate!

Match the targets you attack with your other DPS. I’ve seen way too many DPS selecting their own targets, making it a lot harder for the tank to keep hate. You don’t have to rely on markers to see which target the tank is focussing on. But, if you notice that you’re gaining on the Tank when it comes to the generation of hate and you get the feeling that he cannot keep up; Change your targets for a few seconds, to give the tank a moment to generate more hate.

Also, we know that you want to deal as much damage as you possibly can, but please… Don’t go bonkers on the DPS while the tank is still pulling mobs. Give the tank a few seconds to settle in before going full out.

But, something that is everyone’s responsibility, is to prevent taking damage as much as possible. That means moving out of the AoE attacks.

Originally Posted by Niqote

That being said... those are feelings that come from the stress of Savage. Because in medium level content I don't mind being more vigilant, such as Expert.
Funny, isn't it?

People place too high an expectation on people. Especially during dungeons, which are supposed to be accessible for everyone. Not just the hardcore raiders.

There are so many people in game that really need to lighten up. Slow down. Take it easy.

Just remember. It’s just a game.

Originally Posted by Dgsoil

No because until tp parties became the next big thing, you pulled one enemy at a time in 11, and if you accidentally pulled more you either slept them if you could or tried your damndest just to stay alive, often ending up dead instead. I think people just like to use it as a scapegoat game instead of realizing it's just the developing trend of MMOs to try to get everything done faster faster faster. Partying in 11 pre abyssea was incredibly laid back, you often chatted and made friends with people on your server, something I miss instead of the click click clicking and silent runs that inhabit this title.

Yeah… I miss that sometimes. (^_^; )

Great discussion... And I totally understand and relate to this new "age" of MMOs feeling different (I turn 30 soon... Wow, I am getting long in the tooth...).

The way the game is designed, as I think Nique was suggesting, where essentially everyone is a DPS (particularly in harder content) has been a bit of a turn-off for me overall. This design has also seen a lot of my friends unsub this week, particularly as they are waiting for 3.1 and do not feel motivated working through the same "chores" to get to where they need to be. I think this vertical progression is starting to get to people.

Game design aside, something that still bothers me is the lack of sense of community at times. As someone who actively talks during content to try and bring that "community feel" to the game, I've noticed that it is not the norm, and people can go a whole run without replying. Even in something like PvP where communication is essential - people just follow each other like a pack of ants with no communication whatsoever! Coincidentally, when you have someone calling directions in alliance chat, that's usually when you win in PvP.

This title is very different for me versus my XI experience (I left during WotG before the servers were merged etc), and sometimes it saddens me, nostalgia aside.

A place where community and communication does surprisingly happen, though, at least on Aegis, is in housing wards. It has been wonderful to have Japanese neighbours see my search comments about Hunt mobs and turn up and talk to me in various auto-translates, to invite them to Eternal Bonding ceremonies, and to cast spells and feed each other's minions at the market boards outside our houses. If only everyone could have access to housing content!

I read that huge post, what can I say hmmm... Not much to add.

You are the type to stay loyal to one job so there will be ups and downs throughout the patches, but it won't bother you. This I understand, I used to do this. Back then I swore to not play WAR because I don't like axes,hammers or flails etc but then I got over it because I don't look that much different due to glamours. I mostly played PLD in 1.0. Right now, I play by matching the strength of the job to the content (pld for expert huge pulls, good mitigation. WAR savage get past the dps gate). There's no problem if you are not racing.

The other thing is the difference between JP and EN duty roulette seems to be huge haha. You can tell from from the posts.
Some from our FC went to an EN cluster and tried DF... They came back and never went again lol

Originally Posted by Kyan

A place where community and communication does surprisingly happen, though, at least on Aegis, is in housing wards. It has been wonderful to have Japanese neighbours see my search comments about Hunt mobs and turn up and talk to me in various auto-translates, to invite them to Eternal Bonding ceremonies, and to cast spells and feed each other's minions at the market boards outside our houses. If only everyone could have access to housing content!

Wish I had random JPs send me tells in autotranslate. Unfortunately I'm terrible at writing but I read ok so I find it hard to speak first. It gets lonely and quiet here. And the jponly PFs kinda puts me off from trying to talk to people in anything other than JP (I don't blam them, the random EN player here that joins a group always seems worse than JP. I think JP follow the rules set such as learning party, clear party etc while EN players just join regardless... I see this often happen)

There we go, my Paladin look is complete. (^_^ )-b

Originally Posted by Archvile78

I was looking at my ever growing minions list in-game and a thought occured to me.

Why can't we place minions in our private house/private room? They could take up a furniture slot and be impossible to summon if used as a room/house "furniture". Would be cool to see dozens of minions just roaming around.

iirc, this suggestion has been made in the past :0
And they might be considering it. Maybe there's something in the last 2-3 Q&As?

Originally Posted by Archvile78

I was looking at my ever growing minions list in-game and a thought occured to me.

Why can't we place minions in our private house/private room? They could take up a furniture slot and be impossible to summon if used as a room/house "furniture". Would be cool to see dozens of minions just roaming around.

Yeah, i would love to come home and find a little Shadow waiting for me at the door, wagging his tail. (^_^ )-b