[Dev 1011] Failing Guildleves Intentionally?

[solracht]

Last I checked, insulting the community in your signature is inappropriate. Just because you don't like a change doesn't mean you need to insult the players who actually support what the developers have accomplished. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but since you've openly decided to berate the community for supporting their decision to make those changes is insulting. I've reported you, and I hope others do as well. Players like yourself aren't making this game better. The .01% of the community you represent doesn't account for the others who actually like the direction the development team has taken thus far, and look forward to upcoming changes.

Sorry to the rest of you folks for de-railing the thread a bit. I just can't stand for people who think they "represent all of us" by berating others. I have an opinion, but I'm not calling someone a "noob" or a "bad" over it. If I had an opinion, I'd stick a [dev] tag like 99% of the community has done and expressed it with intelligence rather than spite. To the players that agree with the OP's views, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there is a civil way to post your views. Putting up a trolling billboard is not the right way to do it.

For those of you who are like "wha?" I'm commenting on his signature, which unfortunately doesn't link to a quote.

If it makes you feel better, you're the third person who thought it was serious.

EDIT: Made it more obvious, just for you. Wouldn't want all that wind going to waste.

[AlexiaKidd]

Guildleves, the content you love to hate

So I have been thinking of how SE could improve Guildleves and solve many of the issues with them ie. abandoning them, only picking certain ones, certain camps over-crowded and have come up with a few idea's.

First though I believe the original plan for Guildleves as we have them now was that it was supposed to be more casual/quick content so that you could login and grab some leves and go do them. The main problem is that they are pretty much the only content, so everyone is doing them as they have nothing else to do. Also certain Leve's are better than others in regards to SP/EXP gained so this also make Leve Abandoning to keep those certain Leve's more desirable.

What could work?

My first fix would be to allow all 9 Leve's to be available for selection every reset for every camp. This would allow people to freely choose the Leve's they wish to do so if they are in a group they can make sure they get the same ones to link if they wish.

Also be a bit more creative with the rewards, a lot of people have a lot of gill so it is not so great a reward any more. Maybe try rewards like 30 Guardians Aspect or 15 Anima as a reward something like that to get people tempted to try different Leves.

Next would be to change the way Leve SP/EXP is accumulated. For this maybe it would be better to give a lump sum of SP/EXP at the end of the Leve upon completion and remove the SP/EXP gained from the mobs killed. This would have to be scaled in different ways though.

For example all Rank 20 Leves could give 5000 SP upon completion, Rank 30 gave 10,000, Rank 40 15,000 and so on. That would be the base, then you could add a multiplier for difficulty with the number of stars the Leve was completed on. Maybe 5% per star so if 10,000 was the base and you completed it on 5 stars you would get 15,000 SP/EXP. Then you can add other modifiers like completion time, you rank vs. leve difficulty and so on. If they were to give static SP then they would have to probably have a minimum rank restriction in place to stop Rank 1's tagging along on R40 Leve's.

Possible Result

By doing these few things it would allow people to spread out and utilise different camps to do Leve's as all Leve's of the same Rank would give the same SP/EXP so there would be no need for everyone to go to Broken Water to do the best R40 Leves.

Also it would stop Leve abandoning as you could decide with your group before hand which Leves you were going to take and obviously if you abandoned you would get nothing as the SP/EXP is rewarded at the end so it would be pointless.

This would also allow you to retry Leve's immediately if you did fail or D/C as it wouldn't be exploitable because the SP/EXP and reward is only gained upon completion. So if you D/C halfway though the Leve they could allow you to retry straight away as you wouldn't have gained any SP/EXP until the end anyway.

I think with just these few changes it would help a lot with the current situation regarding Leves and make them a bit more enjoyable as players will be able to go out and try different Leves at different camps without feeling like they are missing out on huge amounts of SP/EXP by taking different ones.

Additional Idea's

Others also suggested a Grade/Score at the end that could be the base for what SP you received. So if you did extremely well you got an S grade and got max SP from the Leve, if you did badly you would get get an E grade and get less SP. I actually really like that idea as it would give some extra motivation and an additional objective while doing the Leve.

[Jibe]

Guildleves, the content you love to hate

So I have been thinking of how SE could improve Guildleves and solve many of the issues with them ie. abandoning them, only picking certain ones, certain camps over-crowded and have come up with a few idea's.

First though I believe the original plan for Guildleves as we have them now was that it was supposed to be more casual/quick content so that you could login and grab some leves and go do them. The main problem is that they are pretty much the only content, so everyone is doing them as they have nothing else to do. Also certain Leve's are better than others in regards to SP/EXP gained so this also make Leve Abandoning to keep those certain Leve's more desirable.

What could work?

My first fix would be to allow all 9 Leve's to be available for selection every reset for every camp. This would allow people to freely choose the Leve's they wish to do so if they are in a group they can make sure they get the same ones to link if they wish.

Also be a bit more creative with the rewards, a lot of people have a lot of gill so it is not so great a reward any more. Maybe try rewards like 30 Guardians Aspect or 15 Anima as a reward something like that to get people tempted to try different Leves.

Next would be to change the way Leve SP/EXP is accumulated. For this maybe it would be better to give a lump sum of SP/EXP at the end of the Leve upon completion and remove the SP/EXP gained from the mobs killed. This would have to be scaled in different ways though.

For example all Rank 20 Leves could give 5000 SP upon completion, Rank 30 gave 10,000, Rank 40 15,000 and so on. That would be the base, then you could add a multiplier for difficulty with the number of stars the Leve was completed on. Maybe 5% per star so if 10,000 was the base and you completed it on 5 stars you would get 15,000 SP/EXP. Then you can add other modifiers like completion time, you rank vs. leve difficulty and so on. If they were to give static SP then they would have to probably have a minimum rank restriction in place to stop Rank 1's tagging along on R40 Leve's.

Possible Result

By doing these few things it would allow people to spread out and utilise different camps to do Leve's as all Leve's of the same Rank would give the same SP/EXP so there would be no need for everyone to go to Broken Water to do the best R40 Leves.

Also it would stop Leve abandoning as you could decide with your group before hand which Leves you were going to take and obviously if you abandoned you would get nothing as the SP/EXP is rewarded at the end so it would be pointless.

This would also allow you to retry Leve's immediately if you did fail or D/C as it wouldn't be exploitable because the SP/EXP and reward is only gained upon completion. So if you D/C halfway though the Leve they could allow you to retry straight away as you wouldn't have gained any SP/EXP until the end anyway.

I think with just these few changes it would help a lot with the current situation regarding Leves and make them a bit more enjoyable as players will be able to go out and try different Leves at different camps without feeling like they are missing out on huge amounts of SP/EXP by taking different ones.

Additional Idea's

Others also suggested a Grade/Score at the end that could be the base for what SP you received. So if you did extremely well you got an S grade and got max SP from the Leve, if you did badly you would get get an E grade and get less SP. I actually really like that idea as it would give some extra motivation and an additional objective while doing the Leve.

Thanks for posting this in here Alexia, I still love your idea

[Sojiro]

@ Alexia I really like the idea. That would be a great way to solve this issue and actually make all the leves worthwhile. Like button click for you .

[Kallera]

Guildleves, the content you love to hate

So I have been thinking of how SE could improve Guildleves and solve many of the issues with them ie. abandoning them, only picking certain ones, certain camps over-crowded and have come up with a few idea's.

First though I believe the original plan for Guildleves as we have them now was that it was supposed to be more casual/quick content so that you could login and grab some leves and go do them. The main problem is that they are pretty much the only content, so everyone is doing them as they have nothing else to do. Also certain Leve's are better than others in regards to SP/EXP gained so this also make Leve Abandoning to keep those certain Leve's more desirable.

What could work?

My first fix would be to allow all 9 Leve's to be available for selection every reset for every camp. This would allow people to freely choose the Leve's they wish to do so if they are in a group they can make sure they get the same ones to link if they wish.

Also be a bit more creative with the rewards, a lot of people have a lot of gill so it is not so great a reward any more. Maybe try rewards like 30 Guardians Aspect or 15 Anima as a reward something like that to get people tempted to try different Leves.

Next would be to change the way Leve SP/EXP is accumulated. For this maybe it would be better to give a lump sum of SP/EXP at the end of the Leve upon completion and remove the SP/EXP gained from the mobs killed. This would have to be scaled in different ways though.

For example all Rank 20 Leves could give 5000 SP upon completion, Rank 30 gave 10,000, Rank 40 15,000 and so on. That would be the base, then you could add a multiplier for difficulty with the number of stars the Leve was completed on. Maybe 5% per star so if 10,000 was the base and you completed it on 5 stars you would get 15,000 SP/EXP. Then you can add other modifiers like completion time, you rank vs. leve difficulty and so on. If they were to give static SP then they would have to probably have a minimum rank restriction in place to stop Rank 1's tagging along on R40 Leve's.

Possible Result

By doing these few things it would allow people to spread out and utilise different camps to do Leve's as all Leve's of the same Rank would give the same SP/EXP so there would be no need for everyone to go to Broken Water to do the best R40 Leves.

Also it would stop Leve abandoning as you could decide with your group before hand which Leves you were going to take and obviously if you abandoned you would get nothing as the SP/EXP is rewarded at the end so it would be pointless.

This would also allow you to retry Leve's immediately if you did fail or D/C as it wouldn't be exploitable because the SP/EXP and reward is only gained upon completion. So if you D/C halfway though the Leve they could allow you to retry straight away as you wouldn't have gained any SP/EXP until the end anyway.

I think with just these few changes it would help a lot with the current situation regarding Leves and make them a bit more enjoyable as players will be able to go out and try different Leves at different camps without feeling like they are missing out on huge amounts of SP/EXP by taking different ones.

Additional Idea's

Others also suggested a Grade/Score at the end that could be the base for what SP you received. So if you did extremely well you got an S grade and got max SP from the Leve, if you did badly you would get get an E grade and get less SP. I actually really like that idea as it would give some extra motivation and an additional objective while doing the Leve.

Sounds similar to dfo. I like it.

[Nipa]

What's the problem with giving all the bonus SP at the completing of the leve, and not during?

This would solve the problem (and it's how every other game does for quests: giving the xp reward at the end of the quest).

[Jibe]

What's the problem with giving all the bonus SP at the completing of the leve, and not during?

This would solve the problem (and it's how every other game does for quests: giving the xp reward at the end of the quest).

Ya that would solve the problem, but might be hard to implement. There was alot of blowback when this was mentioned in another thread too. I wouldn't be against it though.

[TheVedis]

Ok again, since this isnt the first time this has been brung up I will recap

1) The ability to redo failed leves was added on PURPOSE by the devs
2) the devs have specificaly stated its a reward vs type thing. We are sacrificing our reward to do it again for SP
3) the inferno "bug" where you get them to pop unlimited times is not related to this issue. What you are thinking of there is called an exploit, and it is bannable to do it on purpose.

So all in all, the fail on purpose thing is here to stay. It isnt an exploit. It is an "option" that was specificaly added back in november.

[Jibe]

Ok again, since this isnt the first time this has been brung up I will recap

1) The ability to redo failed leves was added on PURPOSE by the devs
2) the devs have specificaly stated its a reward vs type thing. We are sacrificing our reward to do it again for SP
3) the inferno "bug" where you get them to pop unlimited times is not related to this issue. What you are thinking of there is called an exploit, and it is bannable to do it on purpose.

So all in all, the fail on purpose thing is here to stay. It isnt an exploit. It is an "option" that was specificaly added back in november.

TheVedis: I'm bringing it up for hopefully an official comment from SE. In my other thread I asked for a link to an official comment from SE but that did not materialize. I'm not trying to argue about if it is right or wrong, or what. All I want is SE to give a comment about it.

[Jericho]

Ok again, since this isnt the first time this has been brung up I will recap

1) The ability to redo failed leves was added on PURPOSE by the devs
2) the devs have specificaly stated its a reward vs type thing. We are sacrificing our reward to do it again for SP
3) the inferno "bug" where you get them to pop unlimited times is not related to this issue. What you are thinking of there is called an exploit, and it is bannable to do it on purpose.

So all in all, the fail on purpose thing is here to stay. It isnt an exploit. It is an "option" that was specificaly added back in november.

Nice. Thumbs up.

My leve bank will never be filled up with only failed leves. I want marks, too. But we do a BW run every other night, and I like to try and have D4D, ACU, and maybe a decent TTM or ATT. And it's completely allowed, not an exploit.

HOWEVER, as a large group, we usually end up with only a couple singles every night. Some full links, most 2-3 links. a couple singles. Theres only, what, 8 leves per camp? They wouldnt have to change the leves, just try and balance the SP. I am not sure why a full linked D4D will give you 800 pts per mob while a full linked, I don't know, whipping the cur, gives you around 450. I don't know if thats the case, but Im not the only one that has noticed imbalanced SP per mob on leves that are the same "level".