The Monk Temple

[Subucnimorning]

dragon kick (side) -> twin snakes (side) -> demonlish(anywhere 1x GL) -> dragon kick (side + debuff) -> true strike (back) -> snap punch (side 2x GL) -> bootshine(back) -> twin snakes (side + refresh buff) -> snap punch( side + 3xGL) -> dragon kick(side + debuff) -> perfect balance - > internal release -> snap punch 4-5x (side)

since snap punch is ur highest damage output, being able to spam it with internal release is huge. I usually crit 2-4 times for about 400. Its a great DPS

This is what I do as well, also use blood for blood with it. I try to have fracture and tod running while its going as well but I don't refresh them until PB is down.

[twigglypuff]

This is what I do as well, also use blood for blood with it. I try to have fracture and tod running while its going as well but I don't refresh them until PB is down.

this is about right. I too keep tod and fracture running as much as possible. The only reason i didnt really mention them is because its still debatable wheather having facture and tod running is worth the GCD and if it actually increases your dps. I use it because i'm personally under the impression that it does but we cant be sure till we have parsers.

Overall id say my uptime of fracture and tod is pretty high, but definitly not 100% (demolish uptime is closer to 100% then tod and fracture)

What i do know is with 3 stacks of GL you can add tod and fracture into your rotation and still make it in time to refresh GL without stacks dropping. (I have about 2.04 GCD with 3x stacks of GL)

[kukurumei]

this is about right. I too keep tod and fracture running as much as possible. The only reason i didnt really mention them is because its still debatable wheather having facture and tod running is worth the GCD and if it actually increases your dps. I use it because i'm personally under the impression that it does but we cant be sure till we have parsers.

Overall id say my uptime of fracture and tod is pretty high, but definitly not 100% (demolish uptime is closer to 100% then tod and fracture)

What i do know is with 3 stacks of GL you can add tod and fracture into your rotation and still make it in time to refresh GL without stacks dropping. (I have about 2.04 GCD with 3x stacks of GL)

2 problems with it, is that you are overrunning your animation sequence with long ones like Tod and demolish. Thus in a real time of 30 seconds, and 2.xs GCD you expect 14-15 skill activations of on GCD skills, but when you add in off GCD, and positioning, you are nowhere near that, if you put it to practical use.

ex. you can do demolish->boot, you expect 4.1 ish seconds, but... if you add
demolish-> peak (or any other off gcd) -> boot you will end up with a much longer skill time due to animation then
snap-> peak(or any other off gcd) -> boot

And finally people who use training dummies quickly find...not everything is the size of a training dummy. To position yourself with a moving big ass dragon for instance would take you much more time.

DoTs just don't work that well for mnks once you start pounding your off GCD skills, Positioning is hard enough with a crazy target, now you gotta fight with your own animation timing.

you just can't skill stack very well with mnk if you start doing dots.

fracture is a low animation so it's decent, but at the low potency, it's pretty marginal.

[MartyMcfly]

kukurumei, you got it spot on.

SE needs to change the animations for Monks if they want to continue with the whole skills don't finish until the animation is done thing. We need the fastest animations if we are to have the lowest GCD.

I love our animations, but once they have been seen a bunch of times and are now impacting our gameplay, I am all for cutting them out in favour of lackluster looking animations that fire off almost instantly.

[MartyMcfly]

In theory, the animations do not impact Monks, however with server lag and the need to wait to trigger your next attack, they do impact us.

[Almalexia]

In theory, the animations do not impact Monks, however with server lag and the need to wait to trigger your next attack, they do impact us.

There is no theory. Do I need to make a video?

As a test, I went out to a training dummy and performed a simple 6-step cycle similar to my Impulse Drive test. Rather than doing 3 IDs in a row, I instead used 3 ToDs in a row to see if it was sopping up more time than a non-DoT skill would. Sure enough, I was able to fit 3 ToDs without losing GL. To be doubly sure, I replaced Snap Punch with Demolish. My rotation looked like this:

[DK > Twin > Snap (x3) >] ToD > ToD > ToD > DK > Twin > Demolish (refresh GL) > repeat from ToD

GL was perfectly preserved.

I could do this until my TP runs out.

Animation length does not affect the execution of attacks. Demolish and ToD prevent us from using off-GCD abilities for the same amount of time as Bootshine, Snap Punch, or anything else on GCD. Besides, no animation is long enough to tread on 2s GCD--that's full DL MNK--in the first place. Even if animations could prevent the execution of other GCD skills, no one can get the GCD short enough to test it yet.

[kukurumei]

There is no theory. Do I need to make a video?


I could do this until my TP runs out.

Animation length does not affect the execution of attacks. Demolish and ToD prevent us from using off-GCD abilities for the same amount of time as Bootshine, Snap Punch, or anything else on GCD. Besides, no animation is long enough to tread on 2s GCD--that's full DL MNK--in the first place. Even if animations could prevent the execution of other GCD skills, no one can get the GCD short enough to test it yet.

No mnk who has ever tried to stun an aoe would believe a word of that. Go try it on a fate boss or something.

Trying to stun an AoE at the end of a boot-twin-snap, easy
Trying to stun an AoE at the end of a tod/demolish, harrrrrrddd. Like squished for 1324 damage hard.

The engine seems to relay damage information after the animation, and then relays back to goto next skill, so you're there spamming your off gcd skills with no sucess in a decent combat lag situation.

[Almalexia]

No mnk who has ever tried to stun an aoe would believe a word of that. Go try it on a fate boss or something.

Trying to stun an AoE at the end of a boot-twin-snap, easy
Trying to stun an AoE at the end of a tod/demolish, harrrrrrddd. Like squished for 1324 damage hard.

The engine seems to relay damage information after the animation, and then relays back to goto next skill, so you're there spamming your off gcd skills with no sucess in a decent combat lag situation.

I know what you are talking about. This is what made stunning Voice of the Ram in the middle of a normal rotation such a headache.

There is short delay between using a GCD skill and using a non-GCD skill, as well as between using a non-GCD skill and a GCD skill. It's about half a second. I acknowledged this already and I hate it too. But, regardless of which skill you use, the delay remains the same. If I use it after Snap, it trims the end off the animation. If I use it after ToD, it cuts a substantial portion of the animation but still fires after the same brief delay. Hell, I can't even use a non-GCD skill right after a non-GCD skill; I have to pause briefly between Internal Release and Blood for Blood to make sure both activate correctly. Surely you've noticed this too.

I am making two points here:
1) ToD/Demolish animations are not so long that they somehow prevent you from maintaining GL
2) ToD/Demolish animations are not so long that they somehow lock you out of off-GCD skills longer than others

Simply put, no animation is holding you back. It's an incredibly annoying, hard-coded delay between all skills.

[Selsix]

Question from an aspiring PUG/MNK. How viable is going jobless?

Sure, I'll lose things like DK, FoF, OiP, etc...

But I can gain another DoT in the form of Venomous Bite (205 max attack potency potential), 10% more crit with Straight Shot, Raging Strikes and Hawk's Eye for DPS CDs (20% more damage for 20s and 20% ACC for 20s respectively, both on 180s and 90s CDs again, respectively), and Convalescence to stack with Bloodbath for a tad more survivability.

(This is assuming the other 5 skills I am speccing from LNC and MRD are Impulse Drive, Invigorate, Blood for Blood, Bloodbath, and Fracture)

Is there ANY possible merit to this idea? The rotation is looking something like...

Touch of Death > Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Demolish > Straight Shot > Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch > Fracture > Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Demolish > Venomous Bite > Impulse Drive > Touch of Death > Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch (Refresh GL)

After that, you would fill in the empty GCDs between GL/TS refreshment with refreshing all 4 DoTs as needed, Straight Shot, and Impulse Drive. Thoughts?

[Kalamari]

Question from an aspiring PUG/MNK. How viable is going jobless? [snip]... Is there ANY possible merit to this idea?

Edit: Completely forgot about MNK class restriction on end-game gear.. Well there goes that.

Loved the flexibility in cross-skills that I had as PGL too, so I'm really interested in this as well. The arguments against loosing MNK are Dragon Kick debuff, Demolish for AoE, the 5% Fists of Fire buff, Shoulder Tackle as a gap closer, and a teensy bit of Strength. Now assuming a single target boss fight situation, I don't see any way we could make up for the damage loss from loosing Dragon Kick debuff with cross-skills alone.

However, if there is another MNK in the group keeping up Dragon Kick debuff.. then a lvl 50 PGL build might actually work really well. You would loose the 5% Fists of Fire buff, but both Air and Earth are great alternatives. Loosing Shoulder Tackle as a gap closer hurts, but the distance it covers will save you maybe 3-4s of running every 90s with some extra bit of damage, so I don't think it's a huge deal.

Gaining access to a near passive 10% crit from Archer's Double Tap would be huge asset by itself, not to mention Venom Bite as a powerful extra filler attack (these 2 combined could possibly nearly make up for loosing Dragon Kick when no other MNK in group) along with Raging Strikes + Hawks Eye cooldowns, as Selsix mentioned. Not to mention access to many more

Stacking Internal Release, Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, Hawk's Eye all at the same time would definitely result in some insane numbers while they are up, for dps races like Titan HM's heart this could be an extremely powerful combo.

I'm really curious and hopeful if this could work, hope some theorycrafters can shed more light on whether or not a level 50 PGL build could actually be viable end-game.