The Monk Temple

[Shayuki]

Demo ticks for very high. Losing Demo ticks by waiting is not worth the %buff to Demo damage you gain by waiting.

Especially since you will/should recast Demo after the PB anyways, so you will clip some of the total DoT. Delaying the first Demo just means you'll clip more.

Not 100% positive but I think the sequence should come out as:

[PB]: DM SP SP DK TW
[Post-PB]: BS TR DM

GL3 should be maintained across the DK-TW-BS-TR, although that's something you want to verify in game.

I disagree.

This opening is clipping Demolish DoT and the first one with no buffs isn't that strong anyway. In my opinion, it's much better to open with ToD(Perfect Balance) -> Snap Punch(Blood for Blood) -> Snap Punch (Raging Strikes) -> Demolish -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch -> Fracture -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch -> ToD. This lets the first Demolish be much better buffed and also allows you to not clip the DoT at all. It times perfectly. I guess you -could- save the Blood for Blood and Infernal Release for later so that they are used for the second Demolish, but to be honest I think that you gain more DPS overall if their cooldowns are ticking as soon as possible.

While my highest maintainable DPS is just barely above 300 with my gear, with this opening I'm at above 300 DPS right after I'm done with this. It's quite a bit better than what you're suggesting according to my testing.

Maybe starting with the ToD before PB could perhaps not be optimal but it shouldn't be bad by any means, makes use of the Perfect Balance being off GCD, and makes sure you have enough time to get into position.

I do believe he says in his video the same thing. If you aren't opening with perfect balance put ToD up first. But I am curious whether opening with ToD (without PB) is considered less than optimal due to slowing down your stacking of GL, but I'd assume ToD's damage over the time you are stacking GL makes up for the single GCD you spent before starting to stack it. I don't have any math either but it sounds pretty negligible to me assuming it's even a loss.

Well actually, according to my tests when you're not starting with Greased Lightning, it's a DPS loss to start with ToD, whereas when starting with PB, you usually can use the ToD while getting into position anyway. Perhaps it is bad even then, in which case I would just not use ToD at the start and replace the facture with the ToD after the first snap punch after PB.

[Lemon8or]

ToD(Perfect Balance) -> Snap Punch(Blood for Blood) -> Snap Punch (Raging Strikes)

I stopped reading there.

[MrDiezel]

I stopped reading there.

Wow I didnt even catch that... bahahaha!

[EasymodeX]

I disagree.

This opening is clipping Demolish DoT and the first one with no buffs isn't that strong anyway.

Using a 'late' DM (SP SP DM) delays the DM by roughly 4.8s, which means you lose 1.5 ticks of the DoT, a loss of 60p-ish. You gain 18% damage on the total DoT value, roughly .18*40*6 = 43.2-ish and 18% on the direct damage, +12.6. However, where you gain 18% on the DM, you lose 18% on the SP which you move ahead 2 slots, a loss of .18*180 = 32. Gain: 55.8; loss: 92. The other benefit is the avoidance of the clipping.

However, this is more difficult to model and would require a more robust DPS assessment. Avoiding the clipping means you delay your DM timing throughout the rest of your engagement. I actually put together a "MNK opener" model but I'm not 100% confident that the results are accurate.

Edit: Need to review and sit on it for a bit.

[Ricdeau]

I disagree.

This opening is clipping Demolish DoT and the first one with no buffs isn't that strong anyway. In my opinion, it's much better to open with ToD(Perfect Balance) -> Snap Punch(Blood for Blood) -> Snap Punch (Raging Strikes) -> Demolish -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch -> Fracture -> Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish -> Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch -> ToD. This lets the first Demolish be much better buffed and also allows you to not clip the DoT at all. It times perfectly. I guess you -could- save the Blood for Blood and Infernal Release for later so that they are used for the second Demolish, but to be honest I think that you gain more DPS overall if their cooldowns are ticking as soon as possible.

I'm guessing meant Internal Release? Because we certainly don't have Raging Strikes.

If you open your PB combo with Demo then by the time you do your first standard rotation you will be refreshing Demo pretty much right on time. There's should be little to no clipping. Using Demo later in a PB combo would actually be worse because you'd either let an under powered Demo tick out it's duration or you'd clip it with a stronger one sooner.

I personally like to do PB: DM SP DK TW SP then ToD and then lead right into BS TS DM. Timing on the Demo falls pretty much right in line with when the none buffed one is ending.

[Viridiana]

Demo ticks for very high. Losing Demo ticks by waiting is not worth the %buff to Demo damage you gain by waiting.

This is basically my logic for asking why we don't open with Demo. In the time it takes to go through the rotation twice and get your third stack of GL (where people say to use Demo), your first Demo could already have done more damage than Snap Punch would have.

[Allyrion]

This is basically my logic for asking why we don't open with Demo. In the time it takes to go through the rotation twice and get your third stack of GL (where people say to use Demo), your first Demo could already have done more damage than Snap Punch would have.

When you don't use a PB opener, you're definitely. I'm not sure about PB, but you're asking about non-PB starting anyway.
Using Demo for the first GL stack will be a dps increase. I wouldn't use it for the second stack though, if you somehow mess up and SP the first.
Otherwise, it'll be falling off by the time you've got 3 stacks and you're ready to refresh it again.

It shouldn't even clip unless you've got an incredible amount of Skill Speed.
So it's pretty unquestionable.

[KaosPrimeZero]

Heh, learn something new everyday. I always placed demo after G3 was up. Ill try this instead and see how it works out.

Adding to the comments, would it be safe to say Fracture is better for short fights where TP is not an issue and for those where TP is an issue leaving Fracture out is probably a better option?

Adding to this, is it possible to keep GL3 up against Iffy ex? im having to run to the south constantly and by time i get back it just drops.

Lastly, is there a definitive rotation that should be used? I mean one that simply works the best in terms of timing and dots? Would be nice to compare with my own.

Thanks again!

[EasymodeX]

Adding to the comments, would it be safe to say Fracture is better for short fights where TP is not an issue and for those where TP is an issue leaving Fracture out is probably a better option?

Fracture:

1. Increases risk of dropping GL // should only be used on fights where you are very confident in the disengage timing and don't run any risk of dropping GL.

2. Adds maybe 1% total DPS.

3. Burns TP faster.

4. Uses up an xclass slot (although the 5th slot is not worth much).

Adding to this, is it possible to keep GL3 up against Iffy ex? im having to run to the south constantly and by time i get back it just drops.

Ifrit EX has some mandatory GL drops. Eruptions are not one of them. Hmmm ...

1. [Low-risk, low-practice] During the time when the howling goes out, use only cycle attacks (attacks that progress stances). E.g. no ToD, no Fracture.

2. [Low-risk, medium-practice] Position yourself on the opposite side of the howling for moving back. E.g. if the howling is going to the 9oclock ('west') healer, then position at ~5oclock. Run straight 'south'/back like normal. Stutter step every eruption (stop at the border of the eruption for a half second to drop the next eruption there -- if you simply run forward you can run too far / more than necessary). Hook towards the healer on the third eruption. Tackle as it drops. Note: if you don't have eruptions as you are running back, hook more sharply and tackle. Make sure you are to the side of the line of eruptions when you tackle.

3. [Medium-risk, high-practice] Position yourself far on the opposite side of the howling. E.g. if the howling is going to 9, then position at ~4. If you get the eruption, pause a half second and finish your attack, then continue as #2 above. If you don't get an eruption, move directly horizontal to dodge the other DPS' first eruption. Now step back to Ifrit and continue to pew pew. On phase 2 and 3 eruptions, Ifrit will follow the first eruption set with a knockback. Make sure you are on his flank so you get knocked sideways, not into eruptions and die like a noob ^_^.

Lastly, is there a definitive rotation that should be used? I mean one that simply works the best in terms of timing and dots?

Alternate DK-TW with BS-TR. Finish with SP. Use DM instead of DM is down / about to expire. Add ToD if ToD is down.

Monks have a very simple priority sequence.

[KaosPrimeZero]

Fracture:

1. Increases risk of dropping GL // should only be used on fights where you are very confident in the disengage timing and don't run any risk of dropping GL.

2. Adds maybe 1% total DPS.

3. Burns TP faster.

4. Uses up an xclass slot (although the 5th slot is not worth much).

Ifrit EX has some mandatory GL drops. Eruptions are not one of them. Hmmm ...

1. [Low-risk, low-practice] During the time when the howling goes out, use only cycle attacks (attacks that progress stances). E.g. no ToD, no Fracture.

2. [Low-risk, medium-practice] Position yourself on the opposite side of the howling for moving back. E.g. if the howling is going to the 9oclock ('west') healer, then position at ~5oclock. Run straight 'south'/back like normal. Stutter step every eruption (stop at the border of the eruption for a half second to drop the next eruption there -- if you simply run forward you can run too far / more than necessary). Hook towards the healer on the third eruption. Tackle as it drops. Note: if you don't have eruptions as you are running back, hook more sharply and tackle. Make sure you are to the side of the line of eruptions when you tackle.

3. [Medium-risk, high-practice] Position yourself far on the opposite side of the howling. E.g. if the howling is going to 9, then position at ~4. If you get the eruption, pause a half second and finish your attack, then continue as #2 above. If you don't get an eruption, move directly horizontal to dodge the other DPS' first eruption. Now step back to Ifrit and continue to pew pew. On phase 2 and 3 eruptions, Ifrit will follow the first eruption set with a knockback. Make sure you are on his flank so you get knocked sideways, not into eruptions and die like a noob ^_^.




Alternate DK-TW with BS-TR. Finish with SP. Use DM instead of DM is down / about to expire. Add ToD if ToD is down.

Monks have a very simple priority sequence.

Thanks so much for the Information. Ill definitely try it out tonight with my static. At least if i fail there i fail with people i know right? lol As for the DK > TW > SP and BS > TR > SP thats what i already do, adding in DM and ToD when they drop. And for Titan Extreme at least i havent had much trouble including Fracture in my rotation but i see your point. Forseight (i think it is from DRG? or the defensive one either way) could replace that. Bloodbath i hardly ever use.

Thanks again, some really nice inputs. Titan ex, is a bit of hit and miss for me on jumps (basically depends on what he wants to do and how long he wants to stay invulnerable for....) but i can maintain it for most the fight My average DPS is about 220 - 235. Guess i have a long way to go before i hit the hights of 300+ dps >< But then again i am still missing a few BiS pieces.... Time to practice more and become better