Mouse Pointer vanishing in Fullscreen Mode

[Zed2]

So what is going on with this?
I bought this game only to find out I can't play it. This issue was never mentioned anywhere on the store page.
Do you expect me to change my os just for this game?
Playing in borderless window is not a solution, performance is terrible and screen tearing makes it unplayable.

Give us an actual answer SE, are you going to fix this or not and if yes, when?

[Relicreborn]

I have a graphics card that needs to run in full screen for best quality, running in windowed mode is a bit choppy. I still can't see the mouse pointer in full screen after the 2.1 patch and also got the latest drivers for my graphics card. I have Windows Vista 64bit and a Radeon HD 6990 graphics card. I am trying the free login weekend and testing it out. I was told this would be resolved in the 2.1 patch but hasen't so I am not going to renew my subscription, unless someone can tell me how to fix it? But I already tried just about everything and didn't work. I have spent more time trying to get the mouse pointer to work properly in full screen than I have playing the game.. well almost. Just adding a note the the pile of notes from upset people.

[syklonis]

Wow, well glad I never put money in re-subbing but hey thanks for the free weekend which I will not be wasting time on. It only took a few seconds for me to check if you fixed full screen mode for vista like you said would be in patch 2.1 right on these very forums. But nope, it's still not fixed, F**ing pathetic!!

Vista is obviously not fully supported in your game but yet its under supported OS's. I swear I should get a refund for being fooled yet again by your Sh**y company.

[Raist]

It's a long time issue with Vista's DWM that has affected many applications over the years. It's basically a Vista glitch that Microsoft basically only ever addressed with SP1 in the scope of addressing a problem with screen capturing for image editing software (it was injecting the software mouse into the images). It's something that really falls on Microsoft to address with their DX9, Aero, and DWM implementations in Vista.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa969540.aspx

The desktop composition feature, introduced in Windows Vista, fundamentally changed the way applications display pixels on the screen. When desktop composition is enabled, individual windows no longer draw directly to the screen or primary display device as they did in previous versions of Windows. Instead, their drawing is redirected to off-screen surfaces in video memory, which are then rendered into a desktop image and presented on the display.

Desktop composition is performed by the Desktop Window Manager (DWM). Through desktop composition, DWM enables visual effects on the desktop as well as various features such as glass window frames, 3-D window transition animations, Windows Flip and Windows Flip3D, and high resolution support.

The Desktop Window Manager runs as a Windows service. It can be enabled and disabled through the Administrative Tools Control Panel item, under Services, as Desktop Window Manager Session Manager.

Just saying, it isn't a problem exclusive to XIV--it's more a problem with Hardware vs Software mouse cursor rendering because SE is relying on HWCursor support. This layer is SUPPOSED to be supported fully in DirectX and our drivers at this point, but in Vista it's knackered up because of Micro$oft's shoddy implementations--they integrated a half-assed fix nearly 6 years ago that never properly addressed the issue and considered the matter closed.

At best, SE may be able to go back to the drawing board with the rendering engine and GUI to integrate a HWCursor option or something (this was included in a lot of games in the past). But I wouldn't expect that to happen until the newer DirectX version of XIV is released... whenever that happens.

The only thing that consistently remedied this problem when it resurfaced in the past (aside from running windowed) was to disable all things Aero related (desktop, peek, glass, and desktop/mouse themes--to go back to a more vanilla classic look/feel) and disable the DWM service from loading--basically trying to force Desktop Composition out of the picture (think this may be an option under compatibility options too.. forget the full details). It used to work back when these problems first came up, but who knows with all the band-aids Microsoft has put on Vista over the years. Seems like the more they fix, the more they break sometimes.

[Yshnal]

Snip

So, are you saying that each and every one of the games that have been released recently (many of which were developed with Win7+ in mind, not Vista) have gone out of their way to fix this? Because they all work fine.

It seems more likely that SE is using an old (and buggy/unsupported) implementation for their mouse pointer rendering.

[Raist]

So, are you saying that each and every one of the games that have been released recently (many of which were developed with Win7+ in mind, not Vista) have gone out of their way to fix this? Because they all work fine.

It seems more likely that SE is using an old (and buggy/unsupported) implementation for their mouse pointer rendering.

SE took some cues from XI's mouse cursor problems and also incorporated a means to toggle mouse rendering into XIV, then took it a way for some reason. There was nearly a year of work by the community trying to bring back the debug hardware and debug software cursor features because the problem still persisted. Being able to select one option over the other gave them some form of remedy, even if not a perfect one. Some guys found ways to keep bringing it back (several tools to patch the .exe after each beta came out, and there was a new Windower project as well)--but all that went away when the game went offline for the revamp. Haven't noticed anyone else finding and working with the debug modes in 2.0 yet... but, then again I haven't been active in those channels since I left XI either.

Who knows why the option never got fully implemented back into 2.0... perhaps SE just gave up on it since they were planning to move to a higher feature level already. Maybe they were also hoping Vista would fall off the map when Microsoft started phasing out production in 2010 and they weren't expecting to have to deal with it at all in 2.0. But, because it is a problem with the game's current DirectX feature level not behaving properly in Vista, those Vista specific problems will likely persist until SE moves off of the legacy crap and delivers the promised DirectX update.

In a way, you answered your own question. XIV was built with strong XP support initially, then later unofficially supported with the 2.0 rebuild. But it still runs fine in XP... because it's a DX9c game. Vista has always been known to be spotty with pure DX9 stuff because of Microsoft's 10 to 9 emulation crap. Much of this was worked out in DX11 and the Win7 unified drivers and such, and polished further with Win8--but Microsoft and the vendors never retrofitted Vista with the changes. They had a pseudo retro update to incorporate some Win7 enhancements to Vista, but some core stuff still remains borked. Mouse issues is one of them. Other games/apps that also had strong roots in legacy DirectX had/have issues tied to those DX9 throwbacks as well (not limited to just mouse cursor)...even Diablo3 was plagued with mouse cursor issues because of it's DX9 support.

Games/apps that are built solely with Vista/W7/W8 in mind don't fall into the same traps simply because they aren't dependent on those legacy feature flags. No issues with 10_9 or 9_x feature level emulations b/c the base DX will always be straight DX10 or higher. But... if they are building to support XP, they HAVE to write code that uses DX9 directly (not 10_9 or 9_x thunking, but the actual DX9 because XP caps at DX9). There is no DX10 for XP, so you have to code specifically to DX9 to support XP. This poses a problem because then you have to make a decision... make a pure DX9c game and hope it gets along with newer OS's and their DX9 emulation engines/drivers, or incorporate alternate updated coding and an installer to detect/apply the proper version(s) of the game so you can more properly support the native DX level of each of the targeted OS's. It might even result in multiple versions of the game, more or less. So, then you have the complications of on-going support--the logistics of it all can be a bit more than some companies want to invest in (think about XI and the whole PS2/PS3/XB360/PC mess...once bitten, twice shy perhaps?)

In this case, you had a locked native DX9 XP environment in play (XP can't take DX10). Then your Vista starts at DX10, gets DX11 updates and poorly emulates previous DX feature levels not native to the OS. Then finally, you get Win7/win8 with DX11 as their bases, which thunks back to lower feature levels far better than Vista ever could. The game started with DX9 for the XP support... and is STILL DX9 even after the 2.0 rebuild. In Vista, pure DX9 is still handled poorly, and in Win7/8 it's run with far better emulation support.

That's pretty much the long and short of it. Until SE cranks out something along the lines of a DX11 version (or at least a strong DX10 level version) working towards fully locking out XP, Vista is potentially going to be problematic because of fundamental issues with it's DX9 emulation.


New hardware coming out in the coming months and getting demoed at the electronic shows, which means potential price drops on new hardware. Tax Season is around the corner, so people may get to take advantage of some inventory reduction sales (provided people get decent refunds this year). XP End of Life is April, Vista already slated for 2017, and prices aren't that bad for migrating if you plan to install on a current system either. You can already nab Win7/8 for less than $90 online, depending on version (got a sealed win8 Upgrade box for $75 from Canada). Microsoft has a program to get Win8 to students for $70. Not unreasonable to expect more people to begin migrating soon.

Who knows.. maybe SE will do the big upgrade sooner than we expect. Just hope it doesn't go the way of XI's track record.

[Yshnal]

Snip

Actually, the real reason why it still uses that DX version is because of the PS3 (ARR doesn't officially support XP), and I thought that they said that it would never limit the PC version (which should include bugs like this one, I guess). Regardless, almost each and every one of the games really coded with XP and previous gen consoles in mind and, thus, in base DX9 run flawlessly. And that's a lot of games, as we've often been limited by those consoles in that regard... including Diablo 3, as weird as it sounds.

So, sorry, I still don't see your point. From my point of view it's still bad coding on their part if they used an obsolete method aimed for an OS that is not even officially supported by the game (no matter the reason), while the one actually supported doesn't work properly, moreso when other DX9 games (even badly done ports) don't have this problem. It's not an issue of upgrading to 7/8/whatever, it's more simple than that and SE knows it (see quoted official reply a page ago acknowledging the bug). Also, if they truly intend to only fix this in the DX11 client months away they should say it directly.

While I think that you're just trying to help, it's getting really tiring to see you telling us that it's all Vista's fault and that we should upgrade (and even assuming that our HW is old with a pre-installed Vista, and not that we have custom-built machines where we installed an OS that we had already paid and that works fine 99.99% of the time, that 0.01% left being ARR) when in fact, it's more likely that the real problem is the game itself. Tell me, why none of my old games or the games on my long Steam list have any issues? And why does it seem to be the case with everyone else that has the same mouse problem with ARR? Then, what's more likely statistically, that the real issue is actually in Vista or that it's a simple bug/bad coding in ARR? And even if it was Vista, why in the seven hells has the client to work fine with an unsupported OS and not with a supported one (I know why it does as you can see in my previous pharagraphs, it's a rethorical question)? And why the lack of updates on the matter to confirm anything? That's what I, and I guess others too, want to see answered.

[Cegiana]

My wife's PC, which runs the game in XP windowed with 15 more FPS than my win7 PC fullscreen mode. Ever since alpha, the game had issues including the mouse glitch which is why she plays in windowed mode. The glitches were mostly fixed except the mouse problem. So just a heads up for those that think its a Vista only issue, it isn't.

Really wish they would fix this crap, we didnt have this problem with the real/original FfXIV.

[Kaurik]

Bumping this thread every day til they do something..

[Kaurik]

bump... fix my mouse cursor so i can play in fullscreen already!!