Japanese to English translation - Discussion Thread

[Kanzer]

Reinheart, I'm researching as hard as I can.

A little Tweak will not change how they are played. They were already tweaked and that increased damage output and self heals. Not Front End mitigation.

That's a big hint right there. I'm going to try to max STR and Crit Rate and see where that takes me. Considering that they've buffed self heal through inner beast as well as added a Crit Rate buff (not a damage taken buff that everyone is asking for) then maybe that's where we should start looking.

If the devs are wrong, they're wrong, but first why not try to do things their way and then come back and say "We tried maximizing Strength and damage dealt and self heals and Crit and it's not working."

Not really sure how you're supposed to go about this though, all of your equipment is itemized the exact same as a Paladin's equipment, since it's shared. And the 30 str from attribute bonuses has already been shown to make little difference, if any at all.

So the only way I could see that a warrior can purposely gear for crit is their class specific armor from Mythology tokens, except absolutely none of those pieces adds any crit rating. (Ironically the Paladin armor has three pieces that do.)

Maybe getting Mythology DPS jewelry? Even then, it seems silly and wouldn't make much difference.

Too many contradictions for me to believe they really did the proper research when designing the class.

Though I am very interested to hear your future findings HiirNoivl, I've been following many of your post for information regarding warriors.

[Reika]

I missed the first TGS, so i guess thats why i missed the translation :P. Pretty weak that he just says "L2P" in a sorta polite way. Doesn't excuse the fact that warriors self-heals are weak, the healing buff from defiance is weak, and there is no mitigation. Whether or not your FC does everything with warrior anyway, it is still requires greater healing which paladin is not, which is why people go to the paladin now. Just be lucky to be in a FC that doesn't discriminate like the public or others would lol.

"Show off how much harder you try than the paladin" is what he really said.

[HiirNoivl]

Not really sure how you're supposed to go about this though, all of your equipment is itemized the exact same as a Paladin's equipment, since it's shared. And the 30 str from attribute bonuses has already been shown to make little difference, if any at all.

So the only way I could see that a warrior can purposely gear for crit is their class specific armor from Mythology tokens, except absolutely none of those pieces adds any crit rating. (Ironically the Paladin armor has three pieces that do.)

Please look at my Current gear my Body piece currently has 43 Skill Speed for example. I was testing Skill Speed. HQ darksteel melds are my primary means of testing WAR capabilities, because with melds it can fall outside of the typical, boiler plate tanking gear provided at Revenant's Toll.

As for my results: While Skill Speed is important I think that Crit Rate will be more effective on WAR in the long run. I tested Accuracy on WAR as well with a Acc +43 build. (Fortunately I haven't had nearly as many issues with gil as some others. )

If you have HQ Darksteel it allows you to experiement with many different builds. The same can be said of Rose Gold Accessories and trying out different accessories using easily obtainable Philo Tokens.

Another reason why I feel that raising Crit rate is important: Currently with my stats I should be maxing out at 10 or 11% Crit rate according to the Dancing Mad Calculator. But after conducting a number of tests on Ifrit and Garuda (the most easily available content, sadly Titan Parties rarely last long enough to test) I'm setting at a low of 17% to 20% crit rate over all.

Now, I'm not into it as much as some other folks might be, as much to go out and dig and look at WHY this is happening. But if a WAR crits 20% on a 10% build then I would hope that, if things scale linearly as they often do, then WAR will crit 40% on a 20% build.

[Reika]

I don't think you should accept "you are doing it wrong" as an answer :/ If you can't do it with the same gear as a paladin, save the sword and shield, something is amiss.

[HiirNoivl]

I don't feel it is realistic to expect that two classes that are played in such opposite ways design wise should be wearing the same gear.

[Kanzer]

Please look at my Current gear my Body piece currently has 43 Skill Speed for example. I was testing Skill Speed. HQ darksteel melds are my primary means of testing WAR capabilities, because with melds it can fall outside of the typical, boiler plate tanking gear provided at Revenant's Toll.

As for my results: While Skill Speed is important I think that Crit Rate will be more effective on WAR in the long run. I tested Accuracy on WAR as well with a Acc +43 build. (Fortunately I haven't had nearly as many issues with gil as some others. )

If you have HQ Darksteel it allows you to experiement with many different builds. The same can be said of Rose Gold Accessories and trying out different accessories using easily obtainable Philo Tokens.

Another reason why I feel that raising Crit rate is important: Currently with my stats I should be maxing out at 10 or 11% Crit rate according to the Dancing Mad Calculator. But after conducting a number of tests on Ifrit and Garuda (the most easily available content, sadly Titan Parties rarely last long enough to test) I'm setting at a low of 17% to 20% crit rate over all.

Now, I'm not into it as much as some other folks might be, as much to go out and dig and look at WHY this is happening. But if a WAR crits 20% on a 10% build then I would hope that, if things scale linearly as they often do, then WAR will crit 40% on a 20% build.

While it's true you can get the crafted gear, and it allows for greater customization, it requires a great deal of time, effort, and money in order to do this. And this just means a Paladin could put in just as much effort, and still be leagues more efficient.

The fact that you need to go through this much effort just to become as efficient as a paladin in darklight/mythology/allagan gear is a problem in itself. I respect your desire and dedication to do this, but it isn't right to be required to.

[HiirNoivl]

Yoshi P didn't address gear in his all-too-brief statement but he said you will NEED additional skills to play WAR effectively. So there's some extra effort right there at the start. You have to level 3 classes to play one job.

Having played 1.0, where months of effort yielded no results, I don't feel that this is that big of a deal. And seeing how crazy easy it is to meld great gear in 2.0, I don't feel that the effort I'm putting in to become a "very strong" WAR tank is anything more than minimal.

[Kanzer]

Yoshi P didn't address gear in his all-too-brief statement but he said you will NEED additional skills to play WAR effectively. So there's some extra effort right there at the start. You have to level 3 classes to play one job.

Having played 1.0, where months of effort yielded no results, I don't feel that this is that big of a deal. And seeing as how crazy easy it is to meld great gear in 2.0, I don't feel that the effort I'm putting in to become a "very strong" WAR tank is anything more than minimal.

I'm fine with needing extra skill, and heck, even better itemization. I'm not fine with having to do all that extra grinding when all your counterpart has to do is throw on some Darklight gear and already be good to go for all the current content. Especially when all your extra effort is just serving to make you only as efficient as they are. (Also let's be clear, we still don't even know if that's the case. Looking forward to your findings.) It's bad design. And like Reika, I wouldn't accept that as an answer.

[Skies]

I have to say, i'm happy that this WAR discussion is going on.
I certainly wish there were more threads going on akin to "How to better use what we have now" instead of "How do WARs suck, PLD or GTFO", that'd give both playerbase and devs a bigger insight on what is really going on here.
However what really aggravates me is that that discussion's spilling over half the goddamn threads. Can't you guys keep it contained to just four threads or so specifically for that? I mean it's a dream that we could keep it in one but, hell, just four would be enough.

[HiirNoivl]

I'm fine with needing extra skill, and heck, even better itemization. I'm not fine with having to do all that extra grinding when all your counterpart has to do is throw on some Darklight gear and already be good to go for all the current content. Especially when all your extra effort is just serving to make you only as efficient as they are. (Also let's be clear, we still don't even know if that's the case. Looking forward to your findings.) It's bad design. And like Reika, I wouldn't accept that as an answer.

Having come from 1.0 where it took months of prayer and hours of hamlet and crafting and melding (or 10s of millions of gil) and wishing on a star just to begin your Relic Quest.... I'm not sure how to respond to this. WAR is clearly a different tier of tank than PLD. The quote from Yoshi confirms it. You have beginner tank and then more-difficult-to-play tank.

The difficulty is probably there for a reason. If you want the spoils you're going to have to put in the time. The fact that subpar WAR tanks can't succeed past Titan is likely there by design.

I have to say, i'm happy that this WAR discussion is going on.
I certainly wish there were more threads going on akin to "How to better use what we have now" instead of "How do WARs suck, PLD or GTFO", that'd give both playerbase and devs a bigger insight on what is really going on here.
However what really aggravates me is that that discussion's spilling over half the goddamn threads. Can't you guys keep it contained to just four threads or so specifically for that? I mean it's a dream that we could keep it in one but, hell, just four would be enough.

We're actually on topic for the thread. So I'm not sure what you mean.