BLM

[Eggochiggo]

It's just a straight 5% per tick, I'm not sure where the number 33% throughout a full thunder III came up. If it ticked 20 times it would happen once which is 5%, nothing more nothing less.

[Rbstr]

Yeah I typoed. it's 34%
5% per tick. That's a 95% chance per tick nothings happens.
But you get 8 ticks per Thunder 3.
So .95^8 = .66. That's a 66% chance that over all 8 ticks of thunder 3 that you don't get a proc.
So per Thunder 3 cast you will proc 34% of the time.

This is how independent events work.
Say you're rolling dice. You want to roll a 1, that's an 1/6th chance ~16%. If you roll the dice 2 times you have two 16% chances for a 23% chance you will roll a 1 over your two tries.

[Aian]

So per Thunder 3 cast you will proc 34% of the time.

This is correct. The only thing I would add to this is that it is a 66% chance that you don't get any proc; this is not the same as a 34% chance for one proc, which is what some people may be reading from this.

This is why some of you may be scratching your heads thinking "but if I have 80 ticks then I would get on average about 4 procs (one proc for each 20 ticks), which is 10 Thunder 3 casts, which means 4 procs/10 casts, or 40%, chance per cast, on average." The reason for this is because while you will only proc for 34% of casts, some casts will have multiple procs; the total number of procs per cast is about 40%.

TL;DR
The number of procs per cast over a large sample will be equal to about 40%, while the chance per cast for a proc at all (including multiple procs) is only 34% per cast.

[Nyel]

I highly doubt your mathematics here, sorry.

Can't imagine that a 5% per tick chance makes it to a ~ 30% procc chance in the end.

[Lenarr]

I highly doubt your mathematics here, sorry.

Can't imagine that a 5% per tick chance makes it to a ~ 30% procc chance in the end.

His math is correct. 34% chance.

[jcw005]

I highly doubt your mathematics here, sorry.

Can't imagine that a 5% per tick chance makes it to a ~ 30% procc chance in the end.

You misunderstand. What Rbstr is saying is that with a 5% probability of firing at each tick and 8 ticks per Thunder 3, over the course of the entire Thunder 3, there is a 34% chance that Thunderstorm will have triggered at some point during that duration. In other words, if you were to use cast Thunder 3 100 times, and let it tick its full duration, roughly 34 of those would proc a Thunderstorm at some point.
The probability of an event occurring at least once over a series of tries is obviously greater than the probability it occurs on a single event. Flip a coin a hundred times and the probability of at least one head is much, much greater than 50%.

[Rbstr]

Not my fault if you don't know how to do math on probability.

Here's how it works out ~halfway down.
http://www.mathsisfun.com/data/proba...ependent.htmls

edit for better link

[Qvoth]

question for you blms, what are your opinions on eye for an eye?
my acn is only at level 12... i guess sooner or later i'll level the acn to learn it....

[Elvine]

question for you blms, what are your opinions on eye for an eye?
my acn is only at level 12... i guess sooner or later i'll level the acn to learn it....

This is a vital cross class ability to help your healers for the 2nd half of Binding Coil of Bahamut. It will relieve dmg and in turn help your healers out not have to heal. This will also let them use a lower rank heal that would in turn generate less threat.

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Sorry I'm alil late here. So transpose is useless?

Very situational, ideally you wouldn't want to use it or need to if done in a "perfect" rotation and timing of mods.

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So, most of you still agree that this -> [ Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Thunder 3 -> Fire 3 (Astral 3) -> Fire 1 (until Firestarter procs) -> 500 mana -> Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Repeat. --> Thunder 3 on every Thundercloud proc] is the best rotation so far?

Pretty much sums it up, my rotation is below.

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Here is my rotation currently, please give any input that you see may be improved upon.

Single Target Rotation

• Pre Cast Thunder III just before tank pulls during a count down
• Swiftcast (Opener) + Raging Strikes (Cross Skill from Level 4 Archer) + Fire III (To get a 3 stack of Astral Fire)
• Fire (Till 15%-20% MP)
• Blizzard III (To get a 3 stack of Umbral Ice for large MP regeneration ticks)
• Thunder II (Reapply only if needed)
• Fire III (3 stack of Astral Fire reapplied)
• Fire (Till 15%-20% MP)
• Repeat Rotation....

Situational Reminders (For Single Target DPS)

• Only use Fire III when you have a 3 stack of Umbral Ice (Reminder when you have either 3 stack of Umbral Ice or Astral Fire, it will cut the cast time of your ice / fire spells by 50%.)
• Only use Thunder II when you are in Umbral Ice state, this will give you time for your MP consumption from Umbral Ice stacks to tick..
• Only use Thunder III when you have proc Thundercloud.
• While using Fire always weave in your free instant cast Fire III from Firestarter

AoE Rotation

• Fire III (To get a 3 stack of Astral Fire)
• Fire II (Till 20% MP)
• Blizzard III (To get a 3 stack of Umbral Ice for large MP regeneration ticks)
• Fire III (Target highest HP mob)
• Fire II (Till 20% MP)
• Blizzard III
• Repeat Rotation....

[Cinge]

I really am curious where the idea of Thunder II cast + Thunder III for procs came from. Do people have data on this? The tool-tip explicitly states if you use Thunder II for the dot, your thundercloud procs will have a 295 potency no matter what rank thunder spell you use to trigger it. Whereas using Thunder III gives a 345 potency thundercloud proc, again no matter what rank use you to trigger it.

So if you cast thunder II and a thundercloud procs, you can hit Thunder I, II or III and they will all do the same damage. There's no "bonus". Is using Thunder III for procs, putting up Thunder III's dot(instead of re-applying Thunder II's) and then that turns all future Thundercloud procs into the 345 potency instead of 295, until you hard cast thunder II again?

I'm not seeing the benefit of losing 50 potency per cloud proc for .5 seconds of cast time(outside situations with tons of movement).