Not being able to buy single items from a stack on the marketward.

[Sinbios]

The current market system rewards players that put a little effort into selling their items and provides opportunities for sellers that don't have millions of gil and thousands of items to sell. Both the lazy, rich players putting up large stacks and the more dedicated players more frequently putting up smaller stacks or players who only have a few items to sell have the ability to make income on the market.

Have you tried being competitive on the market as an endgame crafter? It's almost a full time job, and the thing is unlike running dungeons or raids, it's not what the core gameplay is supposed to be and it's not fun.

[Wazabi]

You think Walmart would dedicate a whole store to selling 40 cartons of 12 eggs for 2.49 each?

No...they'll find a balance by studying the demand pattern...hence you'll see only 1 shelve of eggs rather than the whole store.
Same goes for FF's market...I seldom if ever make more than 4 posting of the same item. Putting up 20 posting for 1pc of the same item is a waste of retainer slot unless the item is really in demand (for 1pc at that price, taking into account of potential undercutting).

I do not think it is "Lazy" people as you say. Some of us can not spend or do not have hours to watch minute market fluctuations and adjust accordingly.

You're right, some of us are working adults with other commitments. I get at most 2 hours on weekdays, and I spend at least 30mins of that session to trade. Some are better at optimizing their time, some are not...but you don't have to watch the market for hours and keep making adjustments in order to trade.

Retainers have 20 spots. Do you really expect a seller to fill those up with 1 item sales?

You're probably not optimizing your profitability if you have to do that....

[Sinbios]

No...they'll find a balance by studying the demand pattern...hence you'll see only 1 shelve of eggs rather than the whole store.

Except they're not limited to 40 spaces, which is why you won't be able to operate like them.

Same goes for FF's market...I seldom if ever make more than 4 posting of the same item. Putting up 20 posting for 1pc of the same item is a waste of retainer slot unless the item is really in demand (for 1pc at that price, taking into account of potential undercutting).

Right, you were saying buyers don't need to be able to buy part of a stack because "Walmart-type" players like yourself will buy up the stack and sell it in smaller quantities, but you also admit some items are not profitable enough to sell in small quantities? So there won't be "Walmart-type" players who will offer small quantities of these items and the market for those items will stagnate, which is why we need an option to allow purchasing of partial stacks.

[Wazabi]

There's always going to be constraint. If you want to compare with Walmart, they have way more possible items to sell that the game does, not to mention hundreds of other factors that will determine what and how many ends up in which shelves. What I'm saying is work within the constraint...that's what all succesful trader does.

If an item is not profitable to sell in small quantities, then find something that is profitable...If there is a market for small quantities that the seller finds it worthwhile, then there will be sellers who's willing to break bulk. If no one wants to breakbulk, that means the bulk won't sell, supply will accumulate, and price will fall.

[Sinbios]

There's always going to be constraint. If you want to compare with Walmart, they have way more possible items to sell that the game does, not to mention hundreds of other factors that will determine what and how many ends up in which shelves. What I'm saying is work within the constraint...that's what all succesful trader does.

If an item is not profitable to sell in small quantities, then find something that is profitable...If there is a market for small quantities that the seller finds it worthwhile, then there will be sellers who's willing to break bulk. If no one wants to breakbulk, that means the bulk won't sell, supply will accumulate, and price will fall.

Supply will accumulate, and price will fall... but still nobody wants to buy a 99 stack of something they need 1 of. Even if they did, it's still a disincentive that negatively affects the liquidity of the market. And what seller wants to waste a slot listing a 99 stack of something so cheap as to be worthless yet still no one would buy? Now despite the supply nobody wants to list them on the market, and that particular piece of the market stagnates. This is worse than stock exchange-like system in every way.

[Felix7007]

There's always going to be constraint. If you want to compare with Walmart, they have way more possible items to sell that the game does, not to mention hundreds of other factors that will determine what and how many ends up in which shelves. What I'm saying is work within the constraint...that's what all succesful trader does.

Except this is a video game and does not abide by physical constraints.

[fearfactoryman]

I have mixed feelings on this...on one hand I want to be able to by singles & have ran into this problem several times now, but on the other hand, I like being able to sell off partial stacks when I don't plan to craft or harvest anymore of a certain item. I like the way FFXI did this, but I don't necessarily see it as the right solution either. One thing I will say though, is that they need to separate the HQ items from the NQ instead of listing them together. This WAS in FFXI & should be in this game as well. As it is right now, it might be confusing to newer people & hurt HQ profits for crafters as people may not realize the reason for the price jump. Plus, it makes it harder to look at HQ price history.

[MentalPoison]

We're all being trolled right now, aren't we? Interface bugs are actually "features" to discourage undercutting, and fixing it would be too complicated?

Can you please provide the link that confirms this is a bug? I think would clear this up, since youre trying to mock Bizzy for simply offering you an olive branch in the form of "Maybe its a bug, maybe its not". Yet you jump on him hard about the semantics of what he said.

You still haven't answered my question: why is this bad? If that one guy can supply the demand of the entire playerbase for that item at 199 each, then why should anyone else be able to sell it at more than that? You're right, no one will want to farm that particular thing, because it's not worth farming. Why should the market be limited so that the item is made to be worth farming even though in your scenario there's apparently overwhelming supply and not enough demand? If someone else is able to sell it at 500 each, where does the extra 300 come from? From inefficiencies in the market, that's where. This is not how a health market/economy works.

Ive been watching this thread for awhile now and I assure you he has answered that question 90 times. It is obvious you do not get it and probably will never get it. I start to get irritated by that, but then I realize youre of the minority opinion on something you seek to get reversed in the game.

I take a sigh of relief knowing that it is something that wont be changed on a whim.

"Market be limited", by this you refer only to not being able to buy specific number from a stack on the market. Once again I think more and more of us need to come out of the woodwork to tell you, like Bizzy so eloquently did, that it is not at all a limitation or negative effect on the market.

As is, multiple sellers can sell the same exact item SIMULTANEOUSLY. Please please please, I beg you graciously to try to understand what that means. Dont just solider on with your stubborn opinion, really dive into what that means. If 5 people have an item listed, in varying prices and stacks, ALL 5 can potentially sell. You say this is a limited market and to open it up, you suggest a system that would make 5 people listing an item and ONLY, with NO EXCEPTIONS, will the lowest priced item sell, NEVER EVER EVER will the other 4 have even the tiniest chance of selling.

That is literally the only thing that would "limit the market". You guys complain about undercutting and people devaluing goods, yet are seriously trying to make the market 10x worse for all that?

Why? So you can sell 40 stacks of "eggs" you buy off a vendor, for double their price on the market, without having to stay competitive with the market?

You really just are not thinking this through.

Your assumption here is that you are only selling the high-end mats/gear or HQ mats/gear. Yes, you CAN just sell HQ mats, but for some that is just not monetarily efficient for the buy side. If your sell strategy works for you, congratulations. So what happens to the person in their 30s trying to sell their stuff (Raptor Hides and Iron Ores and the likes)?

What happens to them? It was your example of a hypothetical mid-30s leveled player with his pockets turned inside out and cannot grasp the simple concept of how to use the market and player economy to succeed. I grow wary of these endless 'But what about Bob, the bad trader! What becomes of him if we dont ruin the market for everyone else!?!?'.

I had no problem selling goods in my 30s, my FC members in their 30s dont either. As a 50 now, I do not bother with lvl 30 stuff, so they only compete with others around their level.. Or from the looks of it some people in this thread who are still selling vendor bought eggs for a 3gil profit each.

ummm...I tend to disagree with the above statement. Again, I go back to my original argument. The ability to buy from stacks OR sell as a stack worked in 1.0. Why would they want to change this?

I dont quite agree that it worked well in 1.0, but even so the only reason it even KINDA worked was due to bazaar and market wards. Those systems would take pressure off the market and allow for enough wiggle room to implement systems like BUY FROM STACK. Without them though, its a terrible idea and would ruin the market/economy.

Per the MANY previous posts replying to you from others... You are absolutely wrong in everything you say about this topic. There is a thorough counter argument to every point you failed to make. Go back and read before you post again. Thanks.

Post Key
Red = State of Confustion

The irony is so far ive only seen people reply to you, laughing at how poorly you are trying to argue in this thread. "How can I sell all my eggs at once!", which for you means we should destroy the fragile balance of the market by wrecking versatile selling. Righhhtttttt... Talk about confusing.

He is the only one mildly right in everything he says about the topic, most of you go into long winded real life examples... And when someone counters the example, you go "This isnt real life, you arent Walmart!", lol. IT WAS YOUR EXAMPLE.. rofl..

He has refuted the lame arguments over and over again. Im sure he is tired of replying and I doubt we will even see him back in here. But im pretty sure we will see you, making dull points, for a long time to come.

The real problem is that supply-side has millions and millions of units of stuff to sell (in an MMO supply-side will always be over-matched than demand side). By forcing a 40 slot limit and only allowing only stacks, suppliers are feeling the pinch of running out of space.

Then they run out of space until they sell more stuff... Where is the huge game ending problem you are pretending exists? You know you can use /shout, /fc, /L(#), /yell, and other chat channels to also trade goods?

I do not think it is "Lazy" people as you say. Some of us can not spend or do not have hours to watch minute market fluctuations and adjust accordingly.

It absolutely is lazy people with poor time management, bad economic skills, and overall just bad at video game trading. You dont have the "time" for it, but you want to change it to accommodate YOUR playstyle ONLY, simply because you think anyone better at it shouldnt be successful at it.

Only you should be successful, no matter how that would ruin the system, game, market, economy. You just HAVE to get it your way, instead of putting in the TINY effort required currently to do well.

How is that not lazy?

I dont stand there watching the market every 5 seconds, I make moves to ensure my goods sell and sell well. Ill put 10 grand (paypal!) on the fact that I have even less time then you to do it. And yet I do it and do it well. Now you think I shouldnt be able to, so you can get a free ride on market success.

[Sinbios]

<...>
I had no problem selling goods in my 30s, my FC members in their 30s dont either. As a 50 now, I do not bother with lvl 30 stuff
<...>

Ahahahahahaha!!!!

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2557026/

Let's see:
- Claims to be a 50 crafter when highest DoH level is 18
- Same world and FC as Bizzybeast
- Wearing HQ equipment made by Bizzy Beast
- The only one in the thread defending Bizzybeast with endless praise. "So eloquent"? Really?
- Similar condescending yet awkward writing style focused on denigrating opponent with no actual content
- Likes to state bizarre assumptions based on a poor understanding of economics as fact
- Confidently states Bizzybeast won't be replying again in this thread... and how would you know that?

How sad do you have to be to have to defend your convoluted opinions using a sockpuppet...

[Wazabi]

I think the reason most people are so worked up on the current stack selling system is that they don't know how to make gils out of it by taking risk and selling break bulk. You can argue that it is improves the liquidity of the market thus increase the efficiency of the economy, and I agree with that. Make no mistake thinking that allowing players to buy individual pieces from a stack will change your trading outcome...good traders will always out trade you...despite the many proposed solutions to the market posted here and elsewhere.

Bad traders that blames everything else but themselves for their own failure will always find something else to complain about when they fail in the market.