Black Mage testing, theory and rotations

[Sylkis]

This is part 3 and goes straight into rotations.
Part 1: http://eu.beta.finalfantasyxiv.com/l...81/blog/18833/
Part 2: http://eu.beta.finalfantasyxiv.com/l...81/blog/34951/
This: http://eu.beta.finalfantasyxiv.com/l...81/blog/36900/



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A3 = Astral Fire III (A2 = II, A1 = I)
U3 = Umbral Ice III
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A note on Astral Fire III and Umbral Ice III reduced cast time effect:

A3 will half Blizzard cast times and similarly with U3 and Fire, BUT...(As of phase 3)
The game must confirm that you have hit a target with the spells before you get these buffs (you won't get them if you cast Blizzard II on nothing, or spells against invincible targets). This means that you will not get the reduced cast time effect if you cast the spell right after finishing the last spell that grants you the effect.
Example: [Blizzard III > Fire III] Fire III will take full time to cast.
[Blizzard III > Wait 0.5s > Fire III] Fire III will take half time to cast.
[Blizzard III > Blizzard III > Fire III] Fire III will take half time to cast because you got U3 from the very first Blizzard III.

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The building blocks:

Theoretical Average Potency per second:
57.1: [Fire III] (200 Potency, 3.5s)
51.4:[(U1) Fire III] (180 Potency, 3.5s)
56: [(U3) Fire III] (140 Potency, 2.5s (GCD))
102.9[(A3) Fire III] (360 Potency, 3.5s)
116: [(A3) Fire I] (378 Potency, 3.25s)
117: [(A3) Flare] (468 Potency, 4s)
56: [(A3) Blizzard III] (140 Potency, 2.5s (GCD))

A special note about Thunder:
The way that Thunder is implemented is quite interesting. I had to use a simulation to find their average potency and times considering thundercloud.
Repeated casting without combo i.e. [Thunder III>Thunder III] will lower your P/s due of DoT overlap.
Someone has pointed out that you can save the thundercloud effect to cast later. This may increase the overall damage, which the simulation does not account for right now (which affects the numbers below).

Because you can't repeatedly cast them, think of them as a one of a kind building block on your house (rotation).

107.8: [Thunder III (combo into III or II)] (484 Potency, 4.49s)
103.6: [Thunder III (combo into III only)] (456 Potency, 4.40s)
95.4: [Thunder II (combo into II only)] (356 Potency, 3.73s)
101.8: [Thunder III > Thunder II (combo into III or II)] (827 Potency, 8.12s)

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The house:

These were tested to be possible at 3621MP.
Instant abilities such as transpose take up 0.5s.(As of phase 3, spells will be interrupted if you mash them right after using an instant ability)
In these rotations,always use combo when possible.

Theoretical Average Potency per second:
60 :[Blizzard I >] (150P, 2.5s)
82.1 :[Blizzard III > (U3)Fire III > (A3)3x Fire III > (A3)Blizzard III] (1560P, 19s)
89.5 :[(U3) Fire III > (A3)5x Fire I > (A3)Blizzard III > Wait 3s >] (2170P, 24.25s)
92.8 :[(U1) Fire III > (A3)4x Fire I > Flare > Transpose > Wait 3s > Thunder III >] (2644P, 28.49s)
101.1:[Fire III > (A3)4x Fire I > Transpose > Thunder III > Thunder II >] (2539P, 25.12s)
101.2:[(U3) Fire III > (A3)4x Fire I > (A3)Blizzard III > Thunder III >] (2276P, 22.49s)

Question from last time : Flare worth using?
Flare doesn't seem to be worth using on single targets in a rotation because you have to wait for MP. It IS worth using if you have convert and swiftcast.

If there is a good rotation that isn't listed, suggest it and I will put it up.

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Extra:
How does this compare to other DPS jobs? Let's take DRG for example.
113.3: [True Thrust > Vorpal Thrust > Full Thrust >] (850P , 7.5s) assume 2 auto attacks at 100P each

Edit: ...A more accurate representation
Assume 10% piercing reduction = 10% more damage, auto attack every 3s with 100 Potency
133.7: [ [Impulse Drive > Disembowel > Chaos Thrust] > 3x [True Thrust > Vorpal Thrust > Full Thrust] >] (4011P, 30s) (2921(WS) + 1090(AA))

you would also have to consider "increased aetherial damage II" (30% damage boost) and magic damage on a thm weapon being always higher than physical damage on a melee weapon (stardust rod 65 magic damage, gae bolg/spairai 44 physical damage)

Is THM/BLM overpowered? If you add on the 30% (AND 10% from aetherial damage I) and the weapon damage...
looking at something like 150+ vs 133.7
Don't forget the infinite MP!

[Sylkis]

Found a typo in my simulation where thunder 3 had a cast time of 3 and thunder 2 had a cast time of 2.5 and initial potency of 40.
I have corrected this and updated the original post.

It may seem that Thunder now does less damage compared to Fire, but my simulation still has limitations.
For example...:

You can increase its damage potential by just waiting a bit before casting thunder III on thunderstorm. Wait until the thunderstorm buff is almost gone and then hit it. Or, use it on a monster you haven't yet touched with a thunder spell.

I have not accounted for this in the numbers for the Thunder spells.

So, now I'm not sure whether a single Fire or a single Thunder is better.

[Deli]

:O

/offer cookies

^
| thanks for list things out tho... it's super cool You deserve more "like" ^^:
V

[Sylkis]

:O

/offer cookies

mmm delicious

^
| thanks for list things out tho... it's super cool You deserve more "like" ^^:
V

But you know the only ones viewing this are you, me and Hvinire... and I can't like myself =(

[Drewbie]

its all good ill say hi and nice work ^_^

[Deli]

I think it's a good place to discuss thunder spell,
I honestly don't know how does the thundercloud buff works. so let me mutting and teach myself here:
it has 5% chance it will trigger, but thunder effect will last 12s. But the actually ticks will be 4 times? Anyone counts how much times it will do the -hp ticks?

Thunder: initial 30 pot, 40 pot x 4 for DoT expect to trigger thundercloud buff is once every 5 thunders
Thunder2: initial 50 pot, 40 pot x 5 for DoT expect to trigger thundercloud buff is once every 4 thunder2
Thunder3: initial 60 pot, 40 pot x 6 for DoT expect to trigger thundercloud buff is once every 3.33 thunders

at thundercloud buff
thunder will cause 190 potency
thunder2 will cause 240 potency
thunder3 will cause 300 potency
with no cast time and no mp cost...

/muttering off...

[Sylkis]

I think it's a good place to discuss thunder spell,
I honestly don't know how does the thundercloud buff works. so let me mutting and teach myself here:
it has 5% chance it will trigger, but thunder effect will last 12s. But the actually ticks will be 4 times? Anyone counts how much times it will do the -hp ticks?

Thunder: initial 30 pot, 40 pot x 4 for DoT expect to trigger thundercloud buff is once every 5 thunders
Thunder2: initial 50 pot, 40 pot x 5 for DoT expect to trigger thundercloud buff is once every 4 thunder2
Thunder3: initial 60 pot, 40 pot x 6 for DoT expect to trigger thundercloud buff is once every 3.33 thunders

at thundercloud buff
thunder will cause 190 potency
thunder2 will cause 240 potency
thunder3 will cause 300 potency
with no cast time and no mp cost...

/muttering off...

Thundercloud is an interesting mechanic.

Every tick of any thunder has a 5% chance to trigger it and each tick is independent, so you can stack multiple thunders and it will be like rolling multiple dice to see if you trigger it (possibly multiple times in an instance of time, but they are wasted).

Each tick happens every 3 seconds.

About Thunder:
Thunder I: 212MP, 2.5s, 30+160 Potency over 12s/4 ticks
Thunder II: 319MP, 3.0s, 50+200 Potency over 15s/5 ticks
Thunder III: 425MP, 3.5s, 60+240 Potency over 18s/6 ticks

Each tick of any Thunder line spell has 5% to combo into a no MP cost or cast time Thunder I or II or III with:
-Thunder I: 190+160 Potency over 12s/4 ticks
-Thunder II: 250+200 Potency over 15s/5 ticks
-Thunder III: 300+240 Potency over 18s/6 ticks

The expected number of procs if you have all 3 up = 15 ticks * 0.05 = 0.75

Although part 1 is a bit old, do check it out.

[Deli]

oh didn't know you can stack thunder3 / thunder 2 / thunder 1 all together
/nod but after you casted thunder 1, thunder 3 almost wear ^^;
then can't really rely on it... but 0.75 times per mob for that huge boost is kinda fun...

but I don't understand this part

-Thunder I: 190+160 Potency over 12s/4 ticks
-Thunder II: 250+200 Potency over 15s/5 ticks
-Thunder III: 300+240 Potency over 18s/6 ticks

/muttering on AGAIN
so the thundercloud buff add DoT total amount to initial damage and later still do DoT as original? oh it's clear now.. XD

let's see in practical way, use battle experience at dungeon as example... at lv cap, pt usually need to face 3-4 links at same time. on the 3 mobs group, my cnj/whm can sleep 2 mobs (30 seconds sleep) through 1 cure and cleric stance and join the nuke. In the end of mob #2, mob #3 will be about to wake up. That means in best situation, each mob will last about 15 seconds. So... I guess this thunder thing wasn't that worth it than fire fire fire?
in the dungeon boss fight, I think put in thunders is kinda worth it. The fight need to last longer than 3.5 + 3 + 2.5 + 12.5 = 21.5 seconds to make it worth a while in large amount of case?

ya I think Sylkis's The House results are the best for dungeon normal mobs.
for boss, mix in thunders to get 107 dps... I think pld tank can hold it.

/muttering off

I'm not sure how long it usually last when solo situation tho. but I think The House Sequence is good in any case

[Sylkis]

That's right, you would only use fire in short fights.

The P/s values are averages, so you would want to use the highest burst damage for those short fights and not these. Something like Fire III spam (which is terrible for long battles).

[Chinchilla]

Love it, and love blm, and love the thread! It's so nice to get away from those other forums!

Just gonna add my 2cents... I freaking love blm now. It's more than just point and nuke, and to efficiently get the most damage crammed into say a 1/2 dead mob you're really going nuts fitting in thunders and umbral ice, and trying to drop some fires.... ohman I'm so excited! GIMME PHASE 4!