ARR Attack Magic Damage Test (beta3) Int, dtr & acc

[Deli]

If you don't have much time, I'll suggest do a base, like your dex 196, then do an max, such as dex 296.
I was doing that for my dtr test since the first 2 didn't show much difference, and I lose faith. You can fill the points little by little. At least, you'll feel safer that knowing your time investment is worth a little or no.

You are extremely brave to do the test involve with chance @@:::
It might need large amount of data like yours 1000 attacks to get a valid point. That's why I skip the critical damage analysis ^^: But come to think about it... adding 20 dtr only add roughly 0.4% to the magic damage initially; while adding 20 int +4.5% to damage, I think just in 2.0 we shouldn't expect too much on the stats...

dodging is the way to be the best tank

I was in a dungeon with some japanese this past weekend... I was on whm again and like..."oh! so this is how easy this dungeon is if the tank dodged the poison breath..." >"<

[Molly_Millions]

That's certainly true. In some ways this is a academic debate, since at cap materia levels, you can pretty much guarentee 3-4 capped stats (though now that information about sub-caps on materia for stats outside of gear affinity has come out, you may be able to cap more). Based on what I know right now - which could change at any moment - I would cap Strength, then Parry, then Dexterity, then Mind, then Piety on PLD; Strength, then Vitality, then Parry, then Critical Accuracy, then Dexterity on MRD.

As you said, Strength really does reign supreme right now as a tanking stat; it grants damage reduction, more enmity, and allows you to be a meaningful damage dealer (though still lacking when compared to dedicated damage dealers).

Parry seems to have excellent returns on investment, increasing parry rates by 6-7% with +80 Parry in my test, which is incredibly easy to come by, it's also relatively easy to cap for PLDs.

Dexterity is still a black horse here as far as I am concerned, but the small imporvements I saw could have easily been due to the low levels of Dex, and honestly, it's probably still worth the effort when compared to Vitality, since Vitality comes so easily.

Perhaps this is my old FFXI days talking, but I also think PLDs would see some valuable returns on investment at late levels by bringing their Mind and Piety up closer to at level values; I'd want to see how healing enmity compares to spamming WSs to be sure on that one though.

MRD on the other hand, is going to benifit more heavily from raw increases in survivability, as well as attack power improvements to better the chances of a burst of HP absorb, so I would rate Vitality much higher and add Critical Accuracy in to have better HP absorption rates.

Funny you mentioned the bolded part. I parsed several ifrit fights during the last test and was no.1 DD as WAR in every one of them.

In all honesty, I think there are several different ways you can make a build and be effective. The most important thing to remember when doing so is to pick a hierarchy for your stats and stick with it for every piece of gear. It has to do with the low stat caps, and the small returns from each stat. I think this was an intentional design choice, because in 1.0 there was basically 1 way to gear each job and that was it. Now at least we have some flexibility, even if the returns are negligible.

*Edit: As Deli says above the best thing to do is to avoid getting hit in the first place. As tanks, we're given some moves so that we can stun, and stop big damage attacks. Also, running away is a completely valid strategy. :P We don't have to just stand there and eat attacks.

[Hulan]

If you don't have much time, I'll suggest do a base, like your dex 196, then do an max, such as dex 296.
I was doing that for my dtr test since the first 2 didn't show much difference, and I lose faith. You can fill the points little by little. At least, you'll feel safer that knowing your time investment is worth a little or no.

You are extremely brave to do the test involve with chance @@:::

I was in a dungeon with some japanese this past weekend... I was on whm again and like..."oh! so this is how easy this dungeon is if the tank dodged the poison breath..." >"<

Thank you, though I don't know if my courage was born out; even I don't really trust those numbers, even with 1000 samples per stat - probably going to need to bump that up to like 10,000 for an actual accurate value. I would have done what you said, but due to the fact that I couldn't find much Dex gear on the market, all of that Dex was from bonus Attribute points. I don't know of a way to remove them, so I had to do it in order from smallest to largest value.

What dungeon were you doing? I'm always looking for ways to improve my technique and help healers.

Funny you mentioned the bolded part. I parsed several ifrit fights during the last test and was no.1 DD as WAR in every one of them.

*Edit: As Deli says above the best thing to do is to avoid getting hit in the first place. As tanks, we're given some moves so that we can stun, and stop big damage attacks. Also, running away is a completely valid strategy. :P We don't have to just stand there and eat attacks.

I was more refering to PLDs, since at least to my knowledge, they take a sizable hit in damage dealing potential compared to MRDs. And I agree, I'm actually quite proud of my evasive abilities. Unless I'm fighting in a huge mob of enemies, I very rarely get hit by anything with a slower than a 1 second charge time. Except last night.... That last run may have been a wee bit too late for me, never have been much of a late night gamer *cough*

[Deli]

Funny you mentioned the bolded part. I parsed several ifrit fights during the last test and was no.1 DD as WAR in every one of them.

but big molly, other DD need to run for cracks... I think the cracks only spawn on non-tanking members unless they are all dead.
and /nod ppl complain FF14 isn't active enough... they should try tanking. I was constantly on my toes and smashing buttons whenever I can.

/nod to Hulan, 3-10k samples was what I think will generate reasonable data set.

It's the hmm lv32 that jungle one. The most difficult one for healer is the first mini boss set, a bunch birds. I played it 4 times so far, 3 pld 1 war. on 3 fights, my cure2 was non-stopping firing cus don't know why tank keep getting hit by something 600 damage. Then, before I knew it, all the little birds were on me... But this recent one was different, this pld tank, in militia gear set, did some magic trick that he survived without much cares. I can even switch to Cleric Stance and nuke a little or esuna every single poison I saw. I think the boss is using some single-target ws...
The final dragon boss the kitty pld also dodged most poison breath and only got hit once. The charging time for poison breath is super long, I don't know why previous tanks can't do it...

[Molly_Millions]

but big molly, other DD need to run for cracks... I think the cracks only spawn on non-tanking members unless they are all dead.
and /nod ppl complain FF14 isn't active enough... they should try tanking. I was constantly on my toes and smashing buttons whenever I can.

I think it's determined by how much hate each person has, but I haven't watched closely enough to say for sure. It's definitely different from 1.0 though where THM or BLM were top DD as long as they weren't dead.

But yeah, the fact that as tank, I get to wail on Iffy more, definitely had something to with the amount of damage I'm dealing out. It just seems night and day different compared to 1.0.

[Hulan]

/nod ppl complain FF14 isn't active enough... they should try tanking. I was constantly on my toes and smashing buttons whenever I can.

We're getting a little off topic here, but speaking of smashing buttons while tanking. I've noticed a lot of MRD tanks on the Beta forums singing the praises of spamming Overpower.

Am I the only person who things this is an awefully inefficient way to achieve the desired effect. I mean sure, you need to hit it from time to time on big groups to keep hate off of the healers and AoE DDs, but in every group I've tanked Dungeons for, one Overpower and one Flash to open, rotate in Maim, then one more Overpower was more than enough to keep hate on the whole group unless there was an overzealous THM, in which case I just had to swap in one more Overpower after killing the first mob....

Maybe I'm just totally deluded.

[Molly_Millions]

We're getting a little off topic here, but speaking of smashing buttons while tanking. I've noticed a lot of MRD tanks on the Beta forums singing the praises of spamming Overwhelm.

Am I the only person who things this is an awefully inefficient way to achieve the desired effect. I mean sure, you need to hit it from time to time on big groups to keep hate off of the healers and AoE DDs, but in every group I've tanked Dungeons for, one Overwhelm and one Flash to open, rotate in Maim, then one more Overwhelm was more than enough to keep hate on the whole group unless there was an overzealous THM, in which case I just had to swap in one more Overwhelm after killing the first mob....

Maybe I'm just totally deluded.

I don't spam it. My rotation at least for Iffy is generally like this after initially grabbing hate:

Heavy Swing
Skull Sunder
Heavy Swing
Maim
Overpower

I'll toss a Flash in there every once in a while because the GCD seems to get screwed up, and flash seems to fix it. I'll toss Foresight in there when it's up, and Use Brutal Swing to try to stun Iffy and stop his plumes. After the nail I usually pop a mega potion of strength for fun.


As long as somebody else doesn't grab hate before me then run around like an asshat, I never have any issues.

[Hulan]

Well, Ifrit is sort of a different beast, since it's single target. I'm extremely shocked if I have less than 200% enmity from the next highest person on Ifrit, simply because you can focus your efforts and keep up a good Skull Sunder rotation. I've always liked tanking single, large targets; and it's something I consider myself fairly proficient at. Large groups, on the other hand, is something I have very little experience with. So when a fair number of people appear, claiming that spamming Overpower is the way to go, and that is not even close to my own technique, I get a little worried.

[Molly_Millions]

Well, Ifrit is sort of a different beast, since it's single target. I'm extremely shocked if I have less than 200% enmity from the next highest person on Ifrit, simply because you can focus your efforts and keep up a good Skull Sunder rotation. I've always liked tanking single, large targets; and it's something I consider myself fairly proficient at. Large groups, on the other hand, is something I have very little experience with. So when a fair number of people appear, claiming that spamming Overwhelm is the way to go, and that is not even close to my own technique, I get a little worried.

For dungeons, I actually prefer to run with my LS/FC so we can use mumble. In which case large mob groups aren't much different than single targets, because we can easily coordinate on which mob to attack, not attack, sleep, etc.

[Deli]

lalala since it's my thread, so I can feel free to de-rail it:

was going to educate friend about ff14, but it end up I learned a lot too XD and share with you guys:

personal thought of the sequence: I <3 discuss

the following numbers means lv:
solo (lazy of running): 1 > 18/2 > 6 > 50 > 2 > 6 >50
solo (super runner): 50 > 18 > 6 >1 >18 > 6 > 1
solo (single mob long time {ie fate boss} but lazy): 1 > 2/18 > 30 demolish > 50 > 18/2 > 6 > 1

just some thought