Scholar... SAY WHUT?

[Xeia]

...Scholar is healer nuker they could have told us the job but not released what class it comes from. I'm betting oracle or sage is its class and there are alot of names for books they don't have to all be grimiores. THM and CNJ weapons are all a different weapon type but are similar. Yoshi also said that there will be a new healer type class and job ACN isn't going to heal.

That's sort of my thinking too. With Arcanist as a DoT/debuff specialist, there's not much room to make a true um... "bimagical" job like SCH traditionally is, even if the handful of job abilities it gets are all heals/buffs. It's one of the main reasons I'm leaning towards exactly what you said -- that we'll see "grimoires" on Arcanists and Summoners while Scholars might wield "tomes" instead. Their class could range anywhere from an oracle/sage type focusing purely on the magical aspects of the job to a tactician/arithmetician type with an emphasis on things like sensory magic.

[MartaDemireux]

I feel like people are forgetting the non-FFXI scholar. Yes in almost every instance it has access to white and black magic but was never really proficient in them outside of FFXI

Originally in FFIII it checked the monsters HP with scan (later libra). Later it gained Item Lore (enhanced potency of curative items), and its scan was enhanced to check HP, weaknesses and dispel a monsters buffs. Also had lvl 1-3 black and white magic, not making it very good at nuking or healing.

In FFIV:TAY scholar got an ability to stick a weakness on a monster (though this won't be used, SE already stated elemental resistances are out) as well as Gil Toss (lol in an mmo...)

In FFTA2 it could see the Treasure/Items/Gil of a unit as well as raising Resilience (a stat used to evade debuffs) and dealing elemental and non-elemental damage to all units (good and bad guys, could exploit this with equipping units with absorb gear). They could also use an ability to grant a random buff.

In FF4HoL it could halve the defense of all foes, halve the attack of all foes, slow all enemies, reduce atk/def of all foes to 1 for a single turn.

So there are a lot of things they can pick and choose from. I could see it as using the debuffs from ACN and then getting buffs as SCH from quests as well as some unique debuffs. I can see it learning Libra as well though what it will do I have no idea. They could also add a bunch of new things. I could see them getting Bio/Dia like THM used to have as well as Sacrifice if SE intends for this to be a 2nd healing job.

As for nuking and healing, we know they won't give it higher level "Cure" or any of the elemental nukes as those belong to THM and CNJ. Unlike in FFXI, a classes abilities are uniquely theirs, allowing access to a few of them from various other classes. I could see SCH getting access to THM and CNJ abilities. The lower tier nukes and cures would fit right in but the tomes would need some good m.atk to compensate I'd imagine.

[Skavian]

Meh, it's actually Calculator. :/

[Yrusama]

I feel like people are forgetting the non-FFXI scholar. Yes in almost every instance it has access to white and black magic but was never really proficient in them outside of FFXI

Originally in FFIII it checked the monsters HP with scan (later libra). Later it gained Item Lore (enhanced potency of curative items), and its scan was enhanced to check HP, weaknesses and dispel a monsters buffs. Also had lvl 1-3 black and white magic, not making it very good at nuking or healing.

In FFIV:TAY scholar got an ability to stick a weakness on a monster (though this won't be used, SE already stated elemental resistances are out) as well as Gil Toss (lol in an mmo...)

In FFTA2 it could see the Treasure/Items/Gil of a unit as well as raising Resilience (a stat used to evade debuffs) and dealing elemental and non-elemental damage to all units (good and bad guys, could exploit this with equipping units with absorb gear). They could also use an ability to grant a random buff.

In FF4HoL it could halve the defense of all foes, halve the attack of all foes, slow all enemies, reduce atk/def of all foes to 1 for a single turn.

So there are a lot of things they can pick and choose from. I could see it as using the debuffs from ACN and then getting buffs as SCH from quests as well as some unique debuffs. I can see it learning Libra as well though what it will do I have no idea. They could also add a bunch of new things. I could see them getting Bio/Dia like THM used to have as well as Sacrifice if SE intends for this to be a 2nd healing job.

As for nuking and healing, we know they won't give it higher level "Cure" or any of the elemental nukes as those belong to THM and CNJ. Unlike in FFXI, a classes abilities are uniquely theirs, allowing access to a few of them from various other classes. I could see SCH getting access to THM and CNJ abilities. The lower tier nukes and cures would fit right in but the tomes would need some good m.atk to compensate I'd imagine.

Great history writeup!

I agree, SCH likely won't be a main heal or nuke. Maybe it'll be a buffer or debuffer, but it's so hard to know because a "scholar" by definition isn't really a combative thing. It consistently gets Libra, but other than that it could be a completely new iteration.

[MartaDemireux]

Great history writeup!

I agree, SCH likely won't be a main heal or nuke. Maybe it'll be a buffer or debuffer, but it's so hard to know because a "scholar" by definition isn't really a combative thing. It consistently gets Libra, but other than that it could be a completely new iteration.

Thanks ^^

I agree, it'll probably be the buffer/debuffer. ACN debuffs and then get buffs/libra gimmicks as SCH (or maybe even more debuffs). Which would be great so then RDM (if added) can take on the half healing half nuking role that SCH took in XI. I think that's where all the anger really stems from on that front, SCH behaves like a RDM and RDM behaves like a SCH in XI so people don't know what to expect now, especially when uninformed of previous appearances.

But who knows haha, hopefully we will this week thanks to E3!

[Elexia]

Thanks ^^

I agree, it'll probably be the buffer/debuffer. ACN debuffs and then get buffs/libra gimmicks as SCH (or maybe even more debuffs). Which would be great so then RDM (if added) can take on the half healing half nuking role that SCH took in XI. I think that's where all the anger really stems from on that front, SCH behaves like a RDM and RDM behaves like a SCH in XI so people don't know what to expect now, especially when uninformed of previous appearances.

But who knows haha, hopefully we will this week thanks to E3!

Technically true, but my RDM never had a 250-3k+ DoT nuke or controlled the weather to activate weather based gear and benefits/stats etc. (Though technically RDM/WHM could add stats later with Geomancer coming out on top and BRD second.)

[MartaDemireux]

Technically true, but my RDM never had a 250-3k+ DoT nuke or controlled the weather to activate weather based gear and benefits/stats etc. (Though technically RDM/WHM could add stats later with Geomancer coming out on top and BRD second.)

Well yes that's the SCH part of SCH. RDM has RDM parts too that don't cross over other territories.

The building blocks of each are what should have been swapped:

SCH: debuffs(historically had access to more debuffs than buffs)/
HoT
DoT
TPoT
MPoT
weather
nukes T3 or 4)
cure (T3 or 4)
conserve MP

RDM: buffs(historically had access to more buffs than debuffs)
cures(T4-5)
nukes(T4-5)
convert
fast cast
enspells
a version of double cast (2 spells with 1 mp cost or something),
a quick cast job trait
upgrade to B+/A- rank in sword
enhanced MAB traits.

Would be neat if that's the direction they take for both RDM and SCH this time around. Of course I'd love to see these changes in XI but I doubt they'd make such large changes so late in its life. Feels like they're trying to do this though this time around.

Edit: Sorry for digressing haha. I tend to do that >< hopefully SE sees this though and takes it into consideration, saves making another random thread.

[Fantasia]

Well yes that's the SCH part of SCH. RDM has RDM parts too that don't cross over other territories.

The building blocks of each are what should have been swapped:

SCH: debuffs(historically had access to more debuffs than buffs)/
HoT
DoT
TPoT
MPoT
weather
nukes T3 or 4)
cure (T3 or 4)
conserve MP

RDM: buffs(historically had access to more buffs than debuffs)
cures(T4-5)
nukes(T4-5)
convert
fast cast
enspells
a version of double cast (2 spells with 1 mp cost or something),
a quick cast job trait
upgrade to B+/A- rank in sword
enhanced MAB traits.

Would be neat if that's the direction they take for both RDM and SCH this time around. Of course I'd love to see these changes in XI but I doubt they'd make such large changes so late in its life. Feels like they're trying to do this though this time around.

Edit: Sorry for digressing haha. I tend to do that >< hopefully SE sees this though and takes it into consideration, saves making another random thread.

Your "history" is completely wrong... And should expand further back than XI. Maybe in XI RDM had more enhancing spells, but I found SCH to be the better choice for enhancements due to its job abilities (and the fact that its unique buffs were more than just self-target). I also found RDM to be the better debuffer. But if you looked back properly:

HISTORICALLY: Scholar
FFIII
- Had the ability to scan monsters weaknesses
- Doubles the effect of healing items
- Had access to middle tear curative and nuke spells

Tactics II
- Had the ability to deal different elemental damage to all units on a battlefield
- Increased negative status resistance
- Granted random buffs to a target
- Had passive traits which increased de/buff duration

HISTORICALLY: Red Mage
FFI to FFV
- Had access to mid level black and white magic
- Skilled with swords/rapiers

Tactics/Tactics 2
- Low level curative and offensive spells
- Shell/Protect
- Poison/Sleep
- Doublecast
- Wide range of physical attacks which bestowed debuffs (e.g. Blind)

So saying that 'historically' SCH has to be debuff, and RDM is buffs, is silly...
They're both capable of doing the same roles based on older games and the only main difference between the two appears in XI, in which where you say SCH is the better debuffer and RDM is the better enhancer, I take the opposite position.

On the whole, the MAIN difference, I find, is that RDM sacrifices its magical prowess in exchange for a sword, whereas SCH will ultimately stay back from enemies and be more reliant on its spells.

[MartaDemireux]

You misunderstand me, also look up a few posts where I tell what SCH has done in every instance it shows up in FF.

The part you quoted is my FIX for RDM and SCH, not how RDM and SCH actually are in XI. I'm saying that RDM should go the buff route with nukes and healing and SCH should go the tactical route with "oT" abilities and monster-targetable non-damaging, strategic abilities (debuffs).

Historically, RDM gets access to more damage and healing abilities than debuffs, SCH gets more access to foe-targetable, non-damage dealing abilities (debuffs) and other gimmicks in which to heal/damage/buff/debuff.

You mention FF3, FF3 RDM had up to T5 white and black magic (curaga, raise, protect, thundaga, raze, erase) while SCH only had up to T3 (Cura, Teleport, Blindna, Fira, Thundara, Blizzara). Thundaga would out damage the -ra spells and curaga would outheal the cura spells. Libra (scan in this game) is a debuff ability. This makes RDM the healer, nuker, buffer and even enfeebler (RDM even is the one to get Libra in this game as a spell) as opposed to SCH's lower magic skills and using items to heal/attack/buff/debuff and job abilities to debuff. If anything SCH functioned more like a chemist in this game and isn't much of a fair comparison but further accentuates my earlier claim that they could go in a number of directions for this job in XIV.

By "Historically" I mean every occurrence in a FF title, main series or not (such as gaiden/four heroes of light "4HoL" above), prior to FFXI.

[Fantasia]

Ah sorry, I did misunderstand a little.

I still disagree that SCHs get more debuffs than RDM though, especially when comparing the Tactics games. In them SCH can heal and target every unit on the field, whereas RDM gets access to mediocre healing/nukes and various debuffs, both magical debuffs and physical-effect debuffs.

Regardless, we'll hopefully find out tonight! Can't wait =) If I have to wait for Thursday my brain might explode.