Scholar... SAY WHUT?

[Elexia]

All in all, when P3/P4 patch drops we'll know more (since despite them saying wait till E3 to find out more about it, I don't know, since we were supposed to have videos of SMN/Arcanist outside of E3..)

[Pwnagraphic]

We still have a whole week before E3 so there's plenty of time for videos and pics of Summoner in action to pop up. lol

[Alaltus]

Methinks that they've changed the classes, so that

ACN > SCH
EVK > SMN

(EVK = Evoker)

Which isn't really that difficult to edit at this stage in development, and would also explain why the SCH is shown holding a Grimoire (if it's not a Tome) whereas the SMN doesn't appear to be using a weapon at all yet. But that's just my 2 cents.

As you were.

Evoker?

Sorry couldn't resist what with all the talk about Classes being shuffled around. =P

[Xeia]

The only difference between multiple classes from 1 job would be the 5 abilities said job gives... Yoshi did say he wanted, but how it's turning out I hope he decides against it. I've had this debate so many times and I'm still not going to like the idea of multiple jobs. My 2 main arguments against are starting with it at level 50, and the fact that any job that branches from a class WILL be the same role. GLA, for example, has abilities and traits which make it only suited to tanking. It's next to impossible to have a job branch off GLA and make it DD or anything. That's just my opinion though; sounds like a lot of wasted potential having 2 jobs which are pretty much exactly the same bar those few job abilities.

These are my concerns exactly.

People keep comparing the idea of multiple jobs from one class to other games which have specialization trees, but it isn't the same. In other games it makes sense to have different specializations to make some variety between the players who chose the same class, but they can't switch back and forth. If they could, the differences between the specializations would start to feel awfully trivial -- in XIV those small varieties are made through equipping abilities from other classes.

In games where the specializations are supposed to be truly different classes they branch much earlier than 3/5s of the way to cap and then get a significant amount of extra abilities. Not five (or even seven, as is apparently the rumor for SMN).

If we do have two jobs coming from the same class (and I'm not necessarily saying that we don't), then I'm pretty confident at least one of them won't function like they did in v1. There's just not even nearly enough room for actual job identity if they both do.

All in all, when P3/P4 patch drops we'll know more (since despite them saying wait till E3 to find out more about it, I don't know, since we were supposed to have videos of SMN/Arcanist outside of E3..)

If they don't tell us more at E3, it'll be a lot longer than just the P3/P4 patch before we have any decent answers, since neither job (nor ACN) are going to be in until launch

[Fantasia]

Evoker?

Sorry couldn't resist what with all the talk about Classes being shuffled around. =P

I was thinking more along the lines of This!
(Looking at this page, apparently Evokers were also known as Conjurers... that's unsettling)

These are my concerns exactly.

People keep comparing the idea of multiple jobs from one class to other games which have specialization trees, but it isn't the same. In other games it makes sense to have different specializations to make some variety between the players who chose the same class, but they can't switch back and forth. If they could, the differences between the specializations would start to feel awfully trivial -- in XIV those small varieties are made through equipping abilities from other classes.

In games where the specializations are supposed to be truly different classes they branch much earlier than 3/5s of the way to cap and then get a significant amount of extra abilities. Not five (or even seven, as is apparently the rumor for SMN).

If we do have two jobs coming from the same class (and I'm not necessarily saying that we don't), then I'm pretty confident at least one of them won't function like they did in v1. There's just not even nearly enough room for actual job identity if they both do.

I'm glad my view on this is shared >.< I feel like I'm in the minority; not wanting jobs handed to me on a platter @50 =/ Ah well; if they do it then they do it, I just hope they see sense. P2P MMOs are supposed to make money by getting people to spend as long on content as they can, so it's not just a bad idea (IMO) in-game, but adding new jobs to a class already at 50 would also impact them financially, I think, as people don't spend as much time levelling the classes that they actually care about.

[Xeia]

I was thinking more along the lines of This!
(Looking at this page, apparently Evokers were also known as Conjurers... that's unsettling)

Hehe hence why I felt CNJ -> SMN made sense. :P

And the definition for "thaumaturge" that you gave is a little misleading, as it's specifically deific supernatural stuff, not things like witches and ghosts which are also supernatural. It's the miracle work of saints and holy men (historically, anyway. As with most things, I guess pop-culture's put its own spin on it).

Regardless, I like druid best for WHM. I wish they'd gone with that in the English version too. D:

[Fantasia]

Hehe hence why I felt CNJ -> SMN made sense. :P

And the definition for "thaumaturge" that you gave is a little misleading, as it's specifically deific supernatural stuff, not things like witches and ghosts which are also supernatural. It's the miracle work of saints and holy men (historically, anyway. As with most things, I guess pop-culture's put its own spin on it).

Regardless, I like druid best for WHM. I wish they'd gone with that in the English version too. D:

The definition I gave for Thaumaturgy was the one that I found, worded exactly as I put it, I don't really know about it other than that! Regardless I think it fits (and it sounds dark, as a word!)

[Xeia]

The definition I gave for Thaumaturgy was the one that I found, worded exactly as I put it, I don't really know about it other than that! Regardless I think it fits (and it sounds dark, as a word!)

I think it only sounds dark because you're only knowledge of it is the guild in Ul'dah which is basically a bunch of magical undertakers occasionally going out on vendettas for dead people who had contracts with them. Dark stuff. If you look it up elsewhere, it's pretty explicitly miracle-based magic.

Anywaaaay~~~ I guess I'm derailing the thread more than a little.

As for ACN -> SCH, I suppose the link could still work without changing the in game lore already set up for the class. The way the official page describes them reminds me strongly of the Alchemists from Full Metal Alchemist and they were all pretty... research-driven, as Scholars ought to be. The only issue is Carbuncle, though rumor has it that he's a class-only ability. (I've hunted and asked around but still haven't managed to find a source for that. If somebody has one I'm very interested, please share.) Even if he is restricted to ACN, though, I'm not crazy about the idea of SCH's base class basically having a summon.

I just can't get over the fact that both new jobs use the same weapon, and that only one new class has thus-far been announced. :S I do trust in Yoshi's team for the most part, but they have already made some decisions which made me cry a little on the inside.

Oh god no more elemental strengths/weaknesses... why?

[Fantasia]

As for ACN -> SCH, I suppose the link could still work without changing the in game lore already set up for the class. The way the official page describes them reminds me strongly of the Alchemists from Full Metal Alchemist and they were all pretty... research-driven, as Scholars ought to be. The only issue is Carbuncle, though rumor has it that he's a class-only ability. (I've hunted and asked around but still haven't managed to find a source for that. If somebody has one I'm very interested, please share.) Even if he is restricted to ACN, though, I'm not crazy about the idea of SCH's base class basically having a summon.

I just can't get over the fact that both new jobs use the same weapon, and that only one new class has thus-far been announced. :S I do trust in Yoshi's team for the most part, but they have already made some decisions which made me cry a little on the inside.

Oh god no more elemental strengths/weaknesses... why?

Since ACN has already changed since 1.0 i.e. they were planned to use mechanical staves and attack by planting "Runes" (or magical traps) on the floor... and that has already changed a lot! Carbuncle IS ACN only, as mentioned in the Special Talk back in September:

"Instead of Carbuncle, Summoners can call upon pets imbued with the power of the Primals" (@54:01)

And I agree, SCH's class should not be able to access a summon... it's a bit too far out of the SCH capabilities in my opinion, even though in other games they have been able to access dark, elemental, healing (etc) magics to some degree, summoning just makes me weary.

And the elemental thing bugged me sooo much when I first heard, but I'm over it now and understand why they did what they did. I think it's a good move, now I actually understand their reasoning.

[Xeia]

Carbuncle IS ACN only, as mentioned in the Special Talk back in September:

"Instead of Carbuncle, Summoners can call upon pets imbued with the power of the Primals" (@54:01)

THANK YOU!

I had a whole topic about the various rumors about ACN/SMN a while back and was trying to either substantiate or debunk all of them, this was the only one nobody would comment on :3 You're awesome.

You're right about ACN having changed a lot since v1, of course, but that was Tanaka's design. It just seems unlikely they'll make heavy changes to the recent announcement they made of the new ACN designed just for ARR.