Louisioux's tattoo theory

[Zenaku]

I'm always glad when someone agrees with me on that point. I'm all for people coming back from the dead on occasion, I'm all for deaths we didn't know weren't deaths at all, etc. But this isn't one of those times. He selflessly sacrificed himself during an emotional song and then everybody cried. You don't #### that up after. It's done.

It's like in Gundam Seed DESTINY when they

brought back Mu La Flaga. There goes all the emotion I felt in the finale! GONE.

Hey, if we didn't age, we got back five years of our lives back and we get to spend them around something other than people whining about the Calamity. That's not all bad! I bet they've even rebuilt most of my local haunts and fixed the economy.

EDIT: WOW! A loop of browser reloads and confusion and that's a triple post. Maybe I need a nap @.@ Let's just leave it like this before I crash the whole forum.

I know what you mean they should not fuck that up. I know SE said something along the line that he dead but you see what really happen in storyline so i can't wait for that.

[NoloeTazier]

I'm still not aboard the Odin being the one to scare the Garleans from advancing-boat. When Ala Mhigo invaded the Twelvewoods during the Autumn War, you'd be more likely to see Odin if he was around. If he's a warrior, then he would have been all over the Autumn War. Like I've said before, the Sylphs live in the north eastern part of the Twelveswood and are scared to use their Primal or maybe smart enough not to. Of course the Paragon(s) taught the Beasttribes to summon the Primals after the Battle of Silvertear Skies. And I do not think the Garleans would have began their invasion of Gridania and the Twelveswood the same year of conquering Ala Mhigo. Remember they began the brainwash the children and train them to fight for them, this would take some time I would think.

Overall if it was Odin, when did he appear in the Twelveswood and why..the Autumn War would have been a perfect time for Odin to have been seen. I think Odin has too much to do with the Crystal Tower/Tomb of Xandes and the Allagan Empire/Emperor to have ALREADY been in the Twelveswood. I'd think Odin wasn't released until the Crystal Tower appeared or sometime around then.

As for Louisoix being Odin, yeah that's a big negative for me as well. The Archons are suppose to be the Twelve reincarnated. If Louisoix has been killed..well the Circle of Knowing would be in need of another member. Like I said in another thread, I wonder if they come from regular people or if the Circle of Knowing choose successors.

[Anonymoose]

Overall if it was Odin, when did he appear in the Twelveswood and why..the Autumn War would have been a perfect time for Odin to have been seen.

Did any of the Autumn War even take place in the Twelveswood, though? If I remember correctly, most of the fighting took place on the Finesand Banks, a border between Ala Mhigan territory and the wood. The Gridanian general planned to pull back into the wood near Nine Ivies and entrap the enemy general on terrain more familiar to Gridanians (implying that the territory they were already on was not part of the Shroud), but died before setting it into motion and his successor ordered the armies of Gridania to, instead, barrel right into Ala Mhigan territory and get themselves routed, surrounded, and heartily defeated. As far as I can tell, if Odin prowls deep within the wood, he wouldn't have had much opportunity to show up.

We have no idea where the Garleans saw this primal, however. It makes logical sense to me that it'd be Gridania - that's the first place they invaded this time around. Then again, maybe they'd gone the Xelphatol route the first time and found a third Elder there? I'm not saying "It's Odin." but I don't see anything more likely yet.

[finiteHP]

I'm honestly hoping Louisoix is just dead. He sacrificed himself - that should mean something more than an excuse to pull a Gandalf.

Totally agree. I will be disappointed if Louisoix is still alive. Same with Nael (but that's a totally different discussion). End of an Era will lose a lot of meaning for me if Louisoix survived. Though him surviving because he didn't expect whatever happened to Bahamut wouldn't be that bad. As in he's only alive due to something he didn't foresee. Every plan has failed. "At least they are safe. I can die happy knowing that." *Bahamut vanishes.* "Damn it. They're going to be so pissed at me when they get back."

So, best case scenario- he dies having safeguarded the future.
kinda okay case- he was ready to die, but Bahamut vanished (along with his Megaflare)
bad case- Louisoix pulls a Gandalf. He dies and comes back shinier than before.
horrible case- he is somehow Odin.

[NoloeTazier]

Did any of the Autumn War even take place in the Twelveswood, though? If I remember correctly, most of the fighting took place on the Finesand Banks, a border between Ala Mhigan territory and the wood. The Gridanian general planned to pull back into the wood near Nine Ivies and entrap the enemy general on terrain more familiar to Gridanians (implying that the territory they were already on was not part of the Shroud), but died before setting it into motion and his successor ordered the armies of Gridania to, instead, barrel right into Ala Mhigan territory and get themselves routed, surrounded, and heartily defeated. As far as I can tell, if Odin prowls deep within the wood, he wouldn't have had much opportunity to show up.

We have no idea where the Garleans saw this primal, however. It makes logical sense to me that it'd be Gridania - that's the first place they invaded this time around. Then again, maybe they'd gone the Xelphatol route the first time and found a third Elder there? I'm not saying "It's Odin." but I don't see anything more likely yet.

The Autumn War was entirely in the Shroud. It didn't end till the Ala Mhigans were forced from the Shroud by the Alliance. Kinda goes to show you though, it took 4 armies to push back the mighty force of the Ala Mhigans.

The date is 1468 of the Sixth Astral Era. The forces of Ala Mhigo have crossed the Velodyna River, whose waters form the border with neighboring Gridania, and now claim dominion over the East Shroud. With its invasion into these lands sacred to the forestborn, Ala Mhigo, a garrison state known for its jingoism and expansionist ambitions, sparks what will come to be known as the Autumn War.

Straight from The Raven. My Little Chocobo Makeover? edition.

[Anonymoose]

Does that seem conflicting slightly with Erik's story to you?

The Finesand Banks have a rich history indeed. They are found on the west shore of the Velodyna River, at the foot of a now extinct volcano overlooking Rothlyt Sound. The area is a sedimentary basin formed by the deposit of the fine silts and sands carried by the river. Today, it falls within Gridanian territory, but in days past it belonged to my own home nation─Ala Mhigo.

A century ago, King Manfred came to power in Ala Mhigo and decided to expand the nation's territory in order to promote economic growth. To that end, he ordered the Ala Mhigan army to undertake large-scale campaigns that would eventually lead to the onset of the Autumn War. Naturally, such action was met with vehement opposition from the other nations.

Gridania, fearing encroachment along its border with Ala Mhigo, placed the renowned lancer Vainchelon in command of its standing armies and war began. His opponent was Gylbarde, the great general of Ala Mhigo, a fervent believer in the Fist of Rhalgr, and a man who enjoyed enormous popularity among the Ala Mhigan people.

The two leaders were loved by their troops, and at the outbreak of war morale on both sides was very high. The armies clashed time and again all along the border, neither general yielding an ilm. But in a galling twist of fate for Gridania, Vainchelon suddenly took deathly ill.

After no victor emerged following the Battle of Finesand Banks, Vainchelon devised a new strategy. He ordered his forces to retreat to Camp Nine Ivies, fully intending for Gylbarde to give chase. This would lure the Ala Mhigans to terrain more favorable and familiar to the Gridanians. He died, however, before he was able to see his plan executed.

Now, the man who would replace him, Osbern, was extremely ambitious and eager to prove his worth to the Seedseers. Having neither the mind nor patience for Vainchelon's defensive war, however, he ordered a frontal assault on the Ala Mhigan position. When Gylbarde learned of this plan─if plan it may be called─he secretly deployed troops to the most vital points along the Finesand Banks.

The Gridanian forces had scarcely entered the area before they began to suffer heavy losses from highly coordinated Ala Mhigan ambushes. In response, Osbern ordered a forced march, permitting his troops no rest for several days as he attempted to surge through the region. Eventually, exhausted, the Gridanians came to entrench themselves on a hill.

But this is precisely what Gylbarde had wanted! He surrounded the hill with six thousand soldiers to deny the forestborn any hope of retrieving water, and then proceeded to rain down barrage after barrage of arrows upon the encampment. In this seemingly hopeless position, the morale of the Gridanians quickly dwindled.

Following two failed attempts to break free, Osbern himself lead the van of a third and final charge. In the end, Gridania was defeated. Osbern and several of his officers were captured, and the legendary staff Claustrum, lent him by one of the Seedseers, was taken.

This abject defeat accounted for what little morale remained among his surviving troops, and they beat a desperate retreat to Five Hangs with the relentless Ala Mhigans harrying them every step of the way. Gylbarde's victory brought him ever greater accolades from his country, and as a result both he and the Fist of Rhalgr came to wield considerable political power.

And that is a brief history of the Finesand Banks. No, no, you needn't thank me. Knowing there is a little less ignorance in the world is all the reward I require.

The conflict being that The Raven's story says Ala Mhigo "claimed dominion over the East Shroud," where Erik says that the battle took place almost entirely at a sedimentary basin at the foot of an extinct volcano which marked a border between their territories - aside from when they almost pulled back into the East Shroud before the General died and his successor ordered a march even further from the wood.

I guess you could read it that they did pull back, intending to be pursued, but were ordered to march out again before that happened. It doesn't sound like Ala Mhigo ever crossed beyond the beyond Gridanian territory borders, never mind claimed a chunk of the Shroud.

I considered the possibility that perhaps the basin was in the shroud and that part of the shroud is what belonged to Ala Mhigo already ... but then they couldn't have "claimed" it to begin with, and there's no sedimentary ANYTHING in the East Shroud. There's a little bit of water from the Springripple, but that's an isolated lake (さざなみ湖).

Am I reading it wrong?

Perhaps this is like the inconsistencies we've been finding on the official site lately?

[Catapult]

Ok, here is another view.

Why are we assuming Louisoix kicked the proverbial bucket? All we saw was a white light descending as Bahamut charged a megaflare. We have been explicitly told there were final events that occured after we were whisked away - ie: it wasn't over yet. And if it wasn't over, it means both parties still drew breath.
We've also been told that something occured that made Bahamut vanish. So again I ask, how can we assume Louisoix died if Bahamut's entrapment was successful?

I didn't see a noble sacrificial death. I saw a hero getting us out of the way so he wouldn't kill us upon pulling out the biggest trick in his bag, one he would have preferred not to use. Louisoix was always of the mind that we should take the easier and less world-shattering option first.

Mythology in FFIV tells us that Odin was once mortal. Explicitly, a king of Baron who became Odin. This is where I'm coming from with the transformation into Odin thing - the potentially biggest trick in Louisoix's bag, but one that turns him into that which he fights against, FFX Sin-style.

And if Odin appears for the first time in an age only after the calamity, something had to have summoned him or unleashed him - there needs to be a culprit. If that culprit (and vessel) was Lou, you could understand why he left it as his last option.

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On the subject of what primal appeared to prevent the Garlean advance, I wouldn't place Ramuh as too far-fetched. The Sylphs are fearful in the pre-calamity world of summoning him, so they must have a particular reason for this. Maybe they did summon him back then and the affair ended rather badly. And before anyone says "seal not yet broken", recall that the Sylphs are highly skilled conjurers - it is entirely possible that there is a more complex and resource-intensive way of summoning a primal that they are familiar with.

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EDIT RATHER THAN TRIPLE-POSTING:

I'm not quite sure what's up with the tattoos, but I found it interesting that Lou had one tattoo, white on the left, and Uri had one tattoo, black on the right, and everyone else had two on the neck.

Louisoix's Sharlayan neck tattoos were hidden by his clothing most of his time and you full well know it, Mr Moose. That forehead tattoo was something else.

[Catapult]

Does that seem conflicting slightly with Erik's story to you?



The conflict being that The Raven's story says Ala Mhigo "claimed dominion over the East Shroud," where Erik says that the battle took place almost entirely at a sedimentary basin at the foot of an extinct volcano which marked a border between their territories - aside from when they almost pulled back into the East Shroud before the General died and his successor ordered a march even further from the wood.

I guess you could read it that they did pull back, intending to be pursued, but were ordered to march out again before that happened. It doesn't sound like Ala Mhigo ever crossed beyond the beyond Gridanian territory borders, never mind claimed a chunk of the Shroud.

I considered the possibility that perhaps the basin was in the shroud and that part of the shroud is what belonged to Ala Mhigo already ... but then they couldn't have "claimed" it to begin with, and there's no sedimentary ANYTHING in the East Shroud. There's a little bit of water from the Springripple, but that's an isolated lake (さざなみ湖).

Am I reading it wrong?

Perhaps this is like the inconsistencies we've been finding on the official site lately?

/geologist hat on

This is a picture of an extinct volcano:

I grew up at its base in a characteristically sedimentary environment.

The thing about extinct volcanos is that they've had a long time to erode. And that eroded stuff has to go somewhere. Aye, you guessed it, sedimentary deposition. Forests love the stuff and the presence of dead volcanos would explain why the Shroud is so lush..

Your assertions are not inconsistent on that front.

[Anonymoose]

Louisoix's Sharlayan neck tattoos were hidden by his clothing most of his time and you full well know it, Mr Moose. That forehead tattoo was something else.

I dooo. What I mean is that the face ones are unique to those two and on opposite sides, which I find interesting in light of everyone else just having the tribal hickeys. I suppose there should have been a "just" in there.

Your assertions are not inconsistent on that front.

I guess it comes down to whether we're talking East Shroud area or just the east of the Shroud, semantically. Or I guess it's just another one of those in-game actual versus in-game implied mappings, which we know don't sync up 100%.

I don't mean to debate the whole of the Autumn War so much as I mean to debate the idea that the Autumn War's activities were enough to rule out Odin as likely candidate. I wouldn't write off Ramuh and Shiva geographically if it weren't for Louisoix implying pretty clearly that tribe-primals were a new thing.

Just now I made mention of Eorzea's future. But first I must speak of the past, for that which is to come was ever the product of that which has been. Ten years ago, an event took place which shook the very foundation of Eorzea: a tribe of beasts summoned forth a primal. So began the spread of summoning till there was not a tribe in this world to whom the practice remained unknown.

Hell, my money was originally on Ramuh until I was convinced by one of you fine forum-goers that this primal would have been seen before the battle of Silvertear Skies, leading to my new prime bet of Odin. Then you've got Ferne's assertion that this Primal's identity has been planned since the beginning, and we now have that poster depicting what is (seemingly) all of the current primals, of which 6 are (seemingly) disqualified and one was a moon at the time.

[Sabi]

Well let me speculate from a different point of view. The point of view of Gaius van Baelsar.

As he slowly approaches the battlefield on the airship called "Xanthopan" , Gauis receives a report that Bahamut has indeed appeared.

Everything is going according to my plan thinks Gaius and orders his airship crew to prepare the laser cannon thingy (the one from the r46 mission) and the... new magitek contraption.

After the devastating rampage across Eorzea and almost being imprisoned again, Bahamut furiously starts to charge up a Megaflare oblivious to the Garlean airship approaching him.

But before Bahamut manages to finish charging up the megaflare he gets interrupted by a laser cannon bolt fired of Gaius's airship which creates a huge flash (or explosion).

Bahamut is stunned for a few seconds by the blinding white light, but before the elder primal can get his act togheter he finds himself unable to move and finally realizes there is a airship close by with a person on deck who vaguely resembles bahamut's puppet Nael van Darnus. In his hand a mysterious magitek contraption...

A second later bahamut finds himself trapped in a mysterious inescapable place which will later be known as The labyrinth of Bahamut.

As the sun begins to rise the Xantophan sets off to an unknown destination without any care for who is still left behind on the battlefield below.

Gaius while staring off in the distance mumbles to himself: ... time for the experiments to begin...


PS. Xantophan is not the real name of the airship. You can look up on the wiki what Agrius and Xantophan means.
PPS. magitek contraption? spinned it off the experiments the garleans where conducting in The Aurum Vale, Dzemael Darkhold and Toto-Rak.
PPPS. Gaius's experiments? i was thinking of the artwork released a while ago with a creature that had Gaius's upper body and head.
PPPPS. english is my third language, i tried to word it all as best i could! :P