Cross Class Combos for FFXIV?

[Kashius]

I've been playing a lot of Dragon Age II and not a lot of FFXIV as of late. Not because I dislike FFXIV or anything, just letting you all know where this idea came from.

One thing I really like in Dragon Age II is the combat. DAII really makes it a point to have the different classes work together. I think that FFXIV could borrow from the DAII Cross Class Combo system for some pretty cool results if combined with elements of the current system.

How it works: Each DOM/DOW class (not weapon skill/ability) will have a status that it can inflict on an enemy These statuses each have a small debuff attached to them - not the real benefit.

Certain other class moves (weapon skills/abilities) will take advantage of these weakened states for large increases in damage, consuming the status and debuff. Only one class based status effect may be active at one time. They may be consumed and replaced by a single ability.

All class based statuses are inflicted on a % chance basis. Base values apply for moves used to inflict the status inherent to the class (Shadowstich used by ARC). -10% when a different class' move is used (Spinstroke used by ARC).

Example:

ARC - Status: Punctured (5% Slashing damage increase)

Raging Strike: When used now adds - a +20% chance to inflict "Punctured" - to next move to consume the Raging Strike effect
Hawk Eye: When used now adds a +10% chance to inflict "Punctured" to next move to consume the Hawk Eye effect
Puncture (WS): When used has a 60% chance to inflict "Punctured" on all targets hit
Passive: 5% chance to inflict "Punctured" with every attack

So an Archer using Raging Strike w/Puncture would have an 80%-85% chance to inflict the "Punctured" status. Using Raging Strike (+20%) and Hawk Eye (+10%) with Spinstroke (-10% non-ARC skill) would only have a 20% chance to inflict the "Punctured" status. If inflicted, the target(s) will suffer 5% more Slashing damage for the effect duration.

The cool part comes in when certain skills and abilities from other classes exploit these statuses to increase the damage of their own attacks. The key is that no class can inflict the status effect needed to significantly augment their own skills' damage. They have to rely on another class.

Example:

LNC:
Trammel (WS):
+75% damage if target(s) "Battered" (MAR) or "Doomed" (THM)
+50% damage if target(s) "Punctured"or "Rocked" (PUG)

In a party with an ARC, the LNC would be able to capitalize on the "Punctured" status the ARC inflicts if they react with the WS quickly enough. Taken a step further, if used in a Battle Regimen, the ARC and LNC could combine for devastating damage.

ARC buffs with RS and HE -> Battle Regimen -> Puncture ("Punctured" inflicted at 80% chance) -> Trammel (receives BR damage bonus and +50% from consuming "Punctured" effect)

Longer chains, some planning and a bit of luck could lead to really crazy combinations and serious damage. It would also bring about some type of class uniqueness and synergy. The key to balancing these would be making it so that it takes skill to set up long multi-class chains but only a moderate skill level to combo off of a random proc.

Thoughts?

[Reika]

Well they already have battle regime effects that do these things.

[Xquiel]

what about use fire on one ally and give fire damange with the arrow, sword, etc..!?? I like so much this idea, also combine cure and sacrifice to give some kind of plus regen, etc..

[Kashius]

Well they already have battle regime effects that do these things.

I don't think you fully understand the concept here.

Battle Regimens are an organized thing. Player A, B and C each have a specific attack they carry out in a specific order. BR mode must be engaged and disengaged.

Cross Class combos would be a more spur of the moment thing with the possibility of attempting them in BR. As a LNC mid-fight, some ARC could randomly proc "Punctured". Without needing a special mode or anything activated, you can capitalize on this if you react quickly for a big damage Trammel (WS). It is basically a system where each class can cause a critical opening on the target that other classes can take advantage of.

[DarkOrca]

here is twist to Kashius and Xquiel's idea:

1. Scrap the current BR system but instead bring back the a more elaborated SC system from FFXI - to my understand, Kashius's idea is basically very similar to how SC works but with many more combinations. Players can chain different skills after one another for bonus effect

2. Add a system where players can "combine" two skills together (instead of chaining them). These combined move can be setup prior to battles to make things easy. For example, two players in a pt can setup a "fire + puncture", which can be activate when both players have the required tp/mana/timers. When one of the player triggers it, both players will do the corresponding move (ie: Arc doing puncture and mage casting fire onto the Arc or whatever ;P) for the combined effect.

[Crowley]

One issue is that a player could load the skills that buff each other and massively increase solo DPS. I know where your going, and I don't necessarily disagree with the concept, but the skills would need to be limited to "requires: X" in order to create the "need" for certain jobs in a party.

[BlaiseLallaise]

Personally, I like where this is going. I with DarkOrca. An idea like this should completely replace BR. To Crowley, the OP mentioned that the status effect would be applied by the class, not the skill, so that covers the "requires: X", but your concern is valid in the case that the status effect lasts long enough for a player to go through the motions of swapping class and rebuilding TP in the heat of battle.

The one thing I would suggest is making the skills only able to benefit from one other status effect, two at most. Otherwise they have a bit too much utility. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

[darkstarpoet1]

i like the idea of battle regimens, but i hate the being locked out while others are stacking onto it. if they just allowed us to attack while locked in and keeping us from using those attacks til they are used it would be fine with me. that way we could at least heal ourselves or others instead of just standing and waiting to attack would be nice.

i would like the skill chains such as debuffs to be used in regular battle without having to be done in br. the combo attack would be nicer to me to be done within the br if they fixed the regimens like i stated above. once the regimen got released you would see something like victimize II ---- Skull sunder II ----- then an archer throwing bloodletter and a mage turns and casts a spell on it and it shows that animation with the attack itself and BOOM --- then the regimen continues unless another combo is used. to me it would be nice if the animations were shown in regimens smoother because when they go off now it is like just one big spam.

to me individualizing the attacks and making the battle regimen more visually stunning while keeping the attacks as powerful as they are would be nice. they could also kick up an animation to show the additional % of damage each attack of the regimen did so you could see what you got as a bonus for participating. there are multiple lil things like this that could be done within battle regimen to make it more enjoyable while allowing the combo's inside and outside of the regimen itself.

to me the battle regimen is a nice concept, but is lacking on implementation besides it does a great job of additional damage.

[Kirith]

For two mages in a party: how about combining potentially different spells into higher tier ones?

For example:

Fire + Fire = Fire II
Fire + Aero = AoE Fire
Water + Poison = Bio
Fire II + Cure II = Holy

Instead of setting them before these could work like magic burn in FFXI too, which means timing is very important, or some other method. Adding more layers to combat.

Plus, the combinations could go awry with bad timing and maybe damage allies as well? Well, maybe this isn't such a great idea! xD

[Kashius]

Good input all around. The Cross Class Combos wouldn't just be limited to damage - that was just for the sake of the example. There are other things that could be added for capitalizing on one of the status effects. In addition to +Damage things like:

Life Leech
Mana Leech
DoT
Stun
TP Wipe
Anything else players/devs think of

Personally, I like where this is going. I with DarkOrca. An idea like this should completely replace BR. To Crowley, the OP mentioned that the status effect would be applied by the class, not the skill, so that covers the "requires: X", but your concern is valid in the case that the status effect lasts long enough for a player to go through the motions of swapping class and rebuilding TP in the heat of battle.

The one thing I would suggest is making the skills only able to benefit from one other status effect, two at most. Otherwise they have a bit too much utility. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

Yes, thank you for the clarification on how the effects are applied. The duration would only be a few seconds long. Nowhere near long enough to switch class mid-battle! Good thinking though. In the example I gave the LNC skill could chain off 4 effects. 2 for +75% and 2 for +50% damage. That too many?

1. Scrap the current BR system but instead bring back the a more elaborated SC system from FFXI - to my understand, Kashius's idea is basically very similar to how SC works but with many more combinations. Players can chain different skills after one another for bonus effect

The main difference is that you don't have to chain skills. You chain off the effect. Each class would have several different ways to inflict the status on an opponent. For instance, ARC in the example have several options (Puncture (WS), Passive, Raging Strike). Perhaps GLA would be able to inflict their status off blocks (% chance based on the block. 100% for full block and another % for partial). THM could have a chance for their effect to be triggered from each tick of a DoT.

I'm attempting to set up a system that allows for opportunities to randomly do some extra damage in a PUG or really lay into a mob with a coordinated routines.

2. Add a system where players can "combine" two skills together (instead of chaining them). These combined move can be setup prior to battles to make things easy. For example, two players in a pt can setup a "fire + puncture", which can be activate when both players have the required tp/mana/timers. When one of the player triggers it, both players will do the corresponding move (ie: Arc doing puncture and mage casting fire onto the Arc or whatever ;P) for the combined effect.

I've always thought that mages should have an activated ability that allows them to target an ally with a spell to buff that ally with bonus damage of that type for a set time/next attack. I would have to be balanced so that there is an actual bonus. If the bonus damage is only 50 and the mage can solo cast the nuke for 70 no one would do it. But I do like the idea and I wish they would implement it in a way similar to the opening movie!

Keep those wheels turning!