A letter to Square

[Powercow]

Permit me to hazard a hypothesis: That's because the game was a pretty good game.

Aye, it wasn't bad, but for a Final Fantasy game people have certain expectations that this game didn't quite deliver on. I personally would have given it an above average 7/10 overall, mostly due to graphics, environment (visually, I'm a big sucker for things having a large general scale to them and FF13 does have some big set pieces) and combat design.

Oh and I apologize for the length of my previous post. I trimmed it down about 30%, and I could rant about so many more little bits of this game that bug the hell out of me, but that just comes from me being nitpicky when it comes to games. Hell, I did a pretty long rant against FF7's terrible story and still said I liked the game overall. Even FF9, which is one of my top 10 games (largely due to the characters) has a story I can rip apart into tiny little bits. Take any big game and it's going to happen if you think too hard.

[Abriael]

Aye, it wasn't bad, but for a Final Fantasy game people have certain expectations that this game didn't quite deliver on.

A reasonable approach would lead to judging a game according to what it is, not according to "expectations".

It also helps enjoying games a lot more, which is something many forgot in the past decade.

I'm fully aware that you have six years' experience in the industry, but in this thread and others in recent weeks, you would do well to consider your own posts if you percieve others have put across their opinions in this particular way.

Six years of experience were in the voice acting/localization Industry, that unfortunately I had to leave due to the shrinking of the market. I've been a game writer for 15, both on print and web. But again, I don't talk for everyone, nor for "The fans". Regardless of experience.

I write my opinion in a very blunt, honest and clear cut way, and yes, some hate it. They're entitled to their opinion and it never really bothered me that much. I prefer to be disliked by saying things how I see them than to tell people what they like to hear or pandering to irrational rage in order to be liked.

[Tonkra]

i think the best SE could do right now is releasing a FF game with cuddly FF characters like in FF7 oder FF9.



static camera points and not thousands of camera driven "dramatic movie" cutscenes.
sometimes its better to calm down a bit.
FF13 was just too much of that "boom boom* blockbuster movie presentation". thats why it was so linear.

[Pebe]

Responding to Skye, can you explain to me why FFXIII isn't a final fantasy. I never understood this concept, of a game not being final fantasy enough. For each Final Fantasy explored something new and different.

Example: The Abilities
In the beginning we had jobs (1-6)
Then we left jobs for materia(7)
Then we went from materia to junction(8)
Then we went from junction to learning abilities from gear(I forget what it was called - 9)
Then we had Sphere Grid(10)
Then we went back to jobs (11)
Then we went back the a Sphere Grid like system (12 and 13)
Lastly we had jobs again (FF14)

Example 2: The summons
Every single FF game had summons to this date iirc. Perhaps this one of the aspects that made FFXIII less of a Final Fantasy (The summons were done different than what we usually expected)? Although, in my opinion 13 summons are done almost exactly like FFXII. You fight with you summon for a bit, and then do a super move, and then it ends.

The only thing FFXIII has against it that comes to mind that would make it any less of a Final Fantasy is the lack of interesting level design.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Responding to Skye, can you explain to me why FFXIII isn't a final fantasy. I never understood this concept, of a game not being final fantasy enough. For each Final Fantasy explored something new and different.

Example: The Abilities
In the beginning we had jobs (1-6)
Then we left jobs for materia(7)
Then we went from materia to junction(8)
Then we went from junction to learning abilities from gear(I forget what it was called - 9)
Then we had Sphere Grid(10)
Then we went back to jobs (11)
Then we went back the a Sphere Grid like system (12 and 13)
Lastly we had jobs again (FF14)

Example 2: The summons
Every single FF game had summons to this date iirc. Perhaps this one of the aspects that made FFXIII less of a Final Fantasy (The summons were done different than what we usually expected)? Although, in my opinion 13 summons are done almost exactly like FFXII. You fight with you summon for a bit, and then do a super move, and then it ends.

The only thing FFXIII has against it that comes to mind that would make it any less of a Final Fantasy is the lack of interesting level design.

I never said FFXIII wasn't a Final Fantasy. I merely stated that it didn't really have the feel of a Final Fantasy, at least not as much as other Final Fantasy titles did. It's true, each Final Fantasy had their own version of the franchise that it brought to the table. But they each still had that distinctive full flavor that said Final Fantasy. Imo, FFXIII was lacking on that flavor.

Firstly, it was horribly linear. Yeah I know, it's a common whine people use to describe FFXIII. But it's a valid one, nonetheless. The other Final Fantasies were known for having expansive worlds to explore and run around in at your leisure. In XIII, you could only be in the place where your current part in the storyline wanted you to be. It was a "connect the dots" path that didn't rub off too well on fans. Secondly, where the hell was our airship? It may seem like a minor complaint to you, but it's one of the things that people have come to love about the FF series. Not that it really matters all that much, since there really wasn't too much we could do with an airship since the game was super-linear and didn't allow for real exploration. And the so-called sidequests seemed to be so... small. I mean, they all took place in Pulse which was a lot more open as a world than Cocoon, or at least, let you run around a bit more. But the thing is, for being such a massive world, where could you go in it? Only certain areas. It felt more to me like I was exploring a huge valley than a world. And then there's the towns. Every FF before had at least some populated towns to look around in and explore, something to make the world feel alive. The towns on Cocoon had you going a straight line from point A to B. No looking in shops, no talking to people, no none of that. And on Pulse, the only town you could freely walk around in and explore was full of monsters! All the people seemed to be dead! Well, there's cheerful for you. -_-"

I guess what made it seem less Final Fantasy than the others is the linearity of the game and what they didn't include in the game that was included in so many others. Yes, the game had chocobos, monsters to summon, whiny teens (well, one of them at least), annoying perky girl (again, at least one of them), and some angst and a decent storyline. But what it didn't include, while maybe seeming minuscule when it is there, was a point taken off as an FF title when it wasn't there.

[Pebe]

Oh yea, that was the other main argument that i had forgot about, the lack of towns. Which I agree with.

[shane239]

I found the letter and the 33 minute video interesting. And yes I was nodding along with quite a few of the points

"WHAT DO YOU KNOW NOTHING OF THE INDUSTRY!!!???"

Probably not as much as "experts" but I know that there has not been half as many interesting games coming out that I have played in the last few years. Maybe i'm growing out of gaming (I hope not) but I think it does have to do with companies trying to make quick money and produce games at an alarming rate!

I also think they should introduce a 1 post every two days in a thread. I know this is a heated discussion but it is bordering on people trying to force their opinion on each other. Why not just make a point and leave it at that? Would take a lot of the "hate" out of the thread!

[Abriael]

I found the letter and the 33 minute video interesting. And yes I was nodding along with quite a few of the points

"WHAT DO YOU KNOW NOTHING OF THE INDUSTRY!!!???"

Probably not as much as "experts" but I know that there has not been half as many interesting games coming out that I have played in the last few years. Maybe i'm growing out of gaming (I hope not) but I think it does have to do with companies trying to make quick money and produce games at an alarming rate!

I also think they should introduce a 1 post every two days in a thread. I know this is a heated discussion but it is bordering on people trying to force their opinion on each other. Why not just make a point and leave it at that? Would take a lot of the "hate" out of the thread!

Funny how you talk about "trying to force one's opinion on each other", and then you'd force people not to express theirs.

This is a discussion forum mate. That's what it's made for.

[shane239]

Funny how you talk about "trying to force one's opinion on each other", and then you'd force people not to express theirs.

This is a discussion forum mate. That's what it's made for.

Which is why I said one post every two days! Did you even read it!?

Edit: Ah i'm falling into the angry trap!! Must get out.

My intention is not to have peoples voice suppressed but more of a civilised debate structure.

When you are allowed to post as often as you want if you see something you don't like you respond impulsively which can degrade the conversation into an ill mannered debate.

It happens on the forums all the time. I am in no way against discussion I just think they should be more civilised and allow for more people to get their voice in!

[Abriael]

Which is why I said one post every two days! Did you even read it!?

Edit: Ah i'm falling into the angry trap!! Must get out.

My intention is not to have peoples voice suppressed but more of a civilised debate structure.

When you are allowed to post as often as you want if you see something you don't like you respond impulsively which can degrade the conversation into an ill mannered debate.

It happens on the forums all the time. I am in no way against discussion I just think they should be more civilised and allow for more people to get their voice in!

You're assuming that people respond impulsively. I see no impulsiveness here, nor "ill mannered debate". It's actually more civil than usual. There are no insults or mudslinging and the personal attacks are milder than the average.

Sorry, it's not information control time yet.

Wanna know what's really detrimental (and frowned upon in any discussion environment)? People that come in improvising themselves self-elected moderators without adding absolutely nothing to the discussion.