Constellations and the Night Sky

[murf]

As an astronomy buff in the real lifes, I was growing to wonder if Eorzea had any form of categorization with its night sky. Are there constellations? Do any stars have names? Can we see other planets and what are they named? Are they based on myths, or real life sources? Do different races/clans and city states have different constellations?

I know it's not critical to the story or anything, but I think such details lend a modicum of detail to the culture of the world. Pretty much every major civilization on Earth had categorized and partitioned the night sky in this manner even before the advent of telescopes. So why would Eorzea be any different?

(I'll check my complaints about certain physical impossibilities of lunar phase movement across the sky at the door. That's a post for another time.)

[Azeeza]

This, right here.

Not to bring up XI, but it did have constellations and lore as to how they formed. I would love to see the same thing with Eorzea~.

[Jinketsu]

Since this game is supposed to be heavily influenced by other FFs, could we assume that there might be a dungeon on the moon?

[Yrusama]

Since this game is supposed to be heavily influenced by other FFs, could we assume that there might be a dungeon on the moon?

Reminds me of my expectations for Dalamud:

A.) Dalamud contains a dungeon where we fight to destroy it from the inside.
B.) Dalamud contains monsters that will run rampant in 2.0
C.) Dalamud is a mini-Death Star, and can shoot lasers at the planet

I guess B is the more correct answer, but C was correct during the Van Darnus fight.

[Myranda]

As someone whose degree is in astronomy, I must wholly endorse this idea. I too enjoyed that XI had constellations to its sky, and going one step further I appreciated that the brightest stars of each constellation were aspected in color to a different element/primal. For XIV I could also see the elements being used for this, but also the Twelve as a sort of zodiac.

I have doubts there would be other named planets in the Eorzean sky because 1.) as cool as it would be, there's not a lot to be gained for the extra effort of programming in such planetary motions, especially if they weren't trivially geocentric and b.) it's been stated very few Eorzeans even have a concept of a planet, not even knowing their own as Hydælyn. Granted even in RL ancient times the general populace may not have known these things, with all but the most basic knowledge of heavenly motions reserved to the well-to-do scholars. But we can hope~

I'm curious about your moon phases gripe though... can't say I noticed much amiss in the way it moved in 1.0 but I also wasn't paying a lot of attention. Is it because the in-game appearance doesn't match the clock widget, as the following link states? (which is not an observation I made myself)

I did notice that the little corner icon for phases is backwards for waxing/waning according to the northern hemisphere convention I would expect Japanese programmers to use, so either Eorzea/Aldenard/Vylbrand are in the southern hemisphere of Hydælyn or the moons orbit backwards relative to the planet's spin (which is set, since we know the sun rises in the east and sets in the west just like Earth). A retrograde orbit is a huge red flag in terms of plausibility especially given a larger sized moon, but not necessarily impossible. Either that or it's developer oversight. :P

Off-topic: Going back to XI, anyone even noticed that airships always flew north towards Ifrit's Star, regardless of what the terrain was doing underneath or which route you were taking? XD

[murf]

I'm curious about your moon phases gripe though... can't say I noticed much amiss in the way it moved in 1.0 but I also wasn't paying a lot of attention. Is it because the in-game appearance doesn't match the clock widget, as the following link states? (which is not an observation I made myself)[/size]

I noticed the clock discrepancy as well. But that's not it.

The moon (not Dalamud, and on that note, does the regular moon have a name too?) had normal phases, but it always appeared from dusk to dawn, as only a full moon would, regardless of phase. I noticed this at chance when I was in La Noscea and saw a 'waxing crescent' moon setting at dawn, when that particular phase should be setting in early evening. All other phase were the same.

Off-topic: Going back to XI, anyone even noticed that airships always flew north towards Ifrit's Star, regardless of what the terrain was doing underneath or which route you were taking? XD[/size]

I never noticed that. I can't recall the specifics, but the boat from Thanalan to Limsa seemed to move straight in terms of the compass. IE: You sailed 'west' into the sunset, but then Limsa appears on the horizon of the west, even though you should be approaching it from the east since the docks face west. (Or some convoluted mess like that).

[Myranda]

I noticed the clock discrepancy as well. But that's not it.

The moon (not Dalamud, and on that note, does the regular moon have a name too?) had normal phases, but it always appeared from dusk to dawn, as only a full moon would, regardless of phase. I noticed this at chance when I was in La Noscea and saw a 'waxing crescent' moon setting at dawn, when that particular phase should be setting in early evening. All other phase were the same.

Yikes, that would bother me too. @_@

Sounds like they're using a statically placed moon at the antisolar point then, and just changing the texture for its "illumination" without actually moving it to match the necessary geometry of the light source (i.e. the sun). Moving the moon around shouldn't be hard to do and it doesn't have to be continuous. Having it just move once each Eorzean day in a discrete skip would be fine and no one would notice unless they really kept close watch on the moon. Even every 4 Eorzean days (the time between each major phase classification) would probably be reasonable as a compromise if they only want 8 moon texture variations instead of 32.

You know what would be extra cool? Rarely occurring Eorzean eclipses! I doubt this would happen even more than planets getting introduced. They'd have to combine moon motion with solar motion as well to keep it from happening every single Eorzean month. Although solar motion would be nice too because that's how we'd get seasonal variation in the visible constellations, just like we have here...

I never noticed that. I can't recall the specifics, but the boat from Thanalan to Limsa seemed to move straight in terms of the compass. IE: You sailed 'west' into the sunset, but then Limsa appears on the horizon of the west, even though you should be approaching it from the east since the docks face west. (Or some convoluted mess like that).

Hmm... I think you did mix up a few easts and wests in there but I get what you're saying. With Limsa's docks on the western side of the island, the boat would have to make a turn (change compass direction) to properly sail into harbor after passing Vylbrand's southern shores. I wonder how the compass looked going Limsa -> Thanalan compared to Thanalan -> Limsa as well. Because like the FFXI thing I mentioned, Jeuno <=> Kazham (or any other city combination), didn't matter which way you were going, always north according to the sky texture, lol.

[Enkidoh]

The moon (not Dalamud, and on that note, does the regular moon have a name too?)

Isn't the primary moon known as 'Menphina' after the goddess of the moon and love Menphina?

Dalamud after all was referred to as 'Menphina's loyal hound', so that alone seems pretty concrete that Eorzeans call the primary moon and the goddess of the moon by the same name (after all, in real life the word referring to Earth's moon ('lunar') is derived from the Roman goddess of the moon Luna, so there is definitely precedent there.).

I did notice that the little corner icon for phases is backwards for waxing/waning according to the northern hemisphere convention I would expect Japanese programmers to use, so either Eorzea/Aldenard/Vylbrand are in the southern hemisphere of Hydælyn or the moons orbit backwards relative to the planet's spin (which is set, since we know the sun rises in the east and sets in the west just like Earth). A retrograde orbit is a huge red flag in terms of plausibility especially given a larger sized moon, but not necessarily impossible. Either that or it's developer oversight. :P

Well, it appears to me at least that Eorzea is in Hydaelyn's northern hemisphere - at the end of at least two of the ARR trailers where it pans out to show Hydaelyn from space it seems to show Aldenard and Vlybrand in the northern hemisphere of the planet. But it's not very clear after all (if I can find a screencap of the trailer in question I'll post it here).

EDIT:



It's not the best (I had to increase the brightness to show the planet's detail), but I managed to pull a screenshot from this trailer, and you can see Aldenard and Vlybrand quite clearly - although the sun is obscured behind Hydaelyn the light bloom on the top right corner of the planet hints at it's axial tilt, thus showing that Eorzea is pretty conclusively located in the northern hemisphere.

[Catapult]

Well, it appears to me at least that Eorzea is in Hydaelyn's northern hemisphere - at the end of at least two of the ARR trailers where it pans out to show Hydaelyn from space it seems to show Aldenard and Vlybrand in the northern hemisphere of the planet. But it's not very clear after all (if I can find a screencap of the trailer in question I'll post it here).

EDIT:



It's not the best (I had to increase the brightness to show the planet's detail), but I managed to pull a screenshot from this trailer, and you can see Aldenard and Vlybrand quite clearly - although the sun is obscured behind Hydaelyn the light bloom on the top right corner of the planet hints at it's axial tilt, thus showing that Eorzea is pretty conclusively located in the northern hemisphere.

Unless the camera is oriented "upside down". I dare you to reconsider your perspective.


I'm Australian. It's a thing.

[ArkhamNative]

Unless the camera is oriented "upside down". I dare you to reconsider your perspective.

I'm Australian. It's a thing.

That map is so awesome. I like the way it tugs on preconceptions I wasn't even aware I had. ("I already feel the blood rushing to my head," and "Obviously the world's not like that, or we'd fall off. You know, because gravity pulls down, and if we're not on top of the 'ball', we would fall off into space.")

But back to topic, because Eorzeans have called "North" the same half of their globe that Eorzea is in, it's in the Northern hemisphere. And they also chose to represent "North" as "up" on maps.

I guess we'll see in Phase 3 (lolpun) if or how SE has altered the oddity of the moon being seemingly random phases in v1's sky each night. And I'm looking forward to info about constellations or whatever astronomical/astrological lore they have in store.