[Loremonger] 1.X Lominsan Story Arc

[Anonymoose]

Until links are posted for complete articles, assume that everything here is tentative, fallible, and subject to change at any time.

Story Synopses

Shapeless Melody

(Complete Transcript)

The Player begins their journey on Hob’s cargo ship, which is sailing rough Rhotano Sea around Limsa Lominsa with a delivery of trade goods and a room of passengers. In a cramped common room cabin, The Player hears a voice that we now know to be that of Hydaelyn itself. Presumably, this is what awakens the Echo within them.

Rosnsthal, a disgraced and drunken pirate formerly known as Sthalmann, enters and comments on the severity of the storm and how he’s only seen one like it before. This triggers an Echo of one of his previous voyages (Question #1a).

The Player moves above decks for answers, unaware that they are in the past, and sees a starshower. It fades to reveal the decks are enveloped in a heavy storm and the ship is being overrun with frenzied aurelia. Sthalmann is dressed in civilian gear, calling out orders to the crew, and is basically doing most of the fighting himself (Question #1b).

The sea serpent arrives and leaps over the ship, shocking all aboard and ending the Echo, though, somehow, The Player is able to bring a balloonfish from the decks of the Echo to the present.

The ship arrives in Limsa, and Hob allows The Player to accompany his cargo delivery to the Mizzenmast, where they meet Baderon at the tavern within.

NOTE:
During the quest, many NPCs blatantly claim to have no idea what The Player is talking about when they mention the songstress (Hydaelyn) or any events from within the Echo. I was once confused by some counter examples, were an NPC specifically mentions that he could do without "bloodthirsty aurelia," or that he was witness to "something that cannot be explained' the night before, or some "bright light" in the sky. I've sense been informed that these specifics exist only in the English client and are likely accidental artifacts caused by the fact that the EN client is by far the most stylistic and articulate version of the game. They were not meant to specifically refer to the Echo, just make you question whether or not it really happened.

Treasures of the Main

(Complete Transcript)

The Player accompanies Hob to the Drowning Wench and is introduced to Hob, a tavernmaster with a heart of gold who is known for giving people the chance they need to get settled in Limsa. Upon mentioning the sea serpent to Baderon, he recalls Y'shtola's mention of a very similar (or, rather, the exact same) incident during her investigation of The Key (Question #2) some years back. In doing so, he triggers an Echo of this incident during which we get a good idea of the atmosphere of the city-state in 1562.

After the Echo, Baderon commissions a levequest just to give you something to do while he makes an appointment for you to sell your balloonfish at The Bismarck and writes up a recommendation to the Knights of the Barracuda for you. It turns out that the last time the culinarian guildmaster heard one of these mentioned was when Y'shtola investigated, as well, resulting in another accidental Echo.

At Coral Tower, the Musketeer Guild and Barracuda HQ, the recruiters make fun of The Player for not having a weapon, but Commodore Reyner lends them one. Unfortunately, The Player's only experience with a firearm is watching Sthalmann fire one in Shapeless Melody's echo, so they strike his firing pose. Reyner recognizes the stance of his disgraced former superior, triggering an Echo in which Mannskoen, then a sergeant and recruiter, takes The Player's weapon before being distracted by a stunning sparring victory by Merodaulyn, which results in his recruitment by then-Commodore Sthalmann. The echo ends, and the firearm is gone, but Reyner, figuring Rostnsthal (Sthalmann) is The Player's mentor, rejects their application (at least for now).

Due to the Mannskoen echo, The Player tells Isaudorel that they were told to join the 5th Levy.This confuses Isaudorel and he recalls the fate that this unit once suffered, triggering an Echo in which Mannskoen tells applicants the Seal Rock Unit is full. In the background, Emerick, already in on Sthalmann's plan, is recalled to The Misery by his pirate captain, Carvallain. The Echo ends, and Isaudorel attempts to reclaim the borrowed firearm. The Player tries to explain that the sergeant (Mannskoen) took it, but Isaudorel thinks they're talking about a different sergeant because Mannskoen's presumably been dead for some time. The Player is told not to leave town until they get this flintlock thing straightened out and leaves without a job.

Determined to see The Player's initiative land them somewhere, Baderon then sends them to Fisherman's Bottom, as they've heard that Serpent Reavers are in the area of their pullers at Oschon's Torch and Sisipu worries for their safety due to her own past with the Sahagin.

NOTE: At Oschon's Torch, Sisipu refers to the cause of her anxiety differently by language. In two clients, she says that in the past, the pullers at Oschon's Torch had been killed by Reavers. In the other two, including English, she specifically refers to Brookhaven, a village that was razed by Sahagin. Presumably,these are separate incidents and Sisipu was somehow a witness to both. At Brookhaven she saw Emerick dealing directly with "the fishes," but the 'Cudas claim there was a witness of him handing off the charts to Travanchet. I would, of course, be inclined to say Sthalmann was lying, knowing he already had evidence from Brookhaven, but Sisipu was able to provide us with an echo of his discussion with Travanchet even though she says in the EN version that she was concerned due to Brookhaven. Curious...

Wawalago hires out some cheap help to escort her to this lighthouse, where Sisipu's anxiety triggers an Echo in which Emerick is meeting Travanchet to pass along 'Cuda charts and information on the Seal Rock unit. However, it turns out the current lighthouse crew is just fine and the group returns to Limsa, where Wawalago takes a liking to the player and actually pays up for once.

Though Wawalago does offer to take The Player on at the fishing guild, Baderon has them make one more stop: the blacksmith/armorer guild's shipyard. There, The Player doesn't actually get beyond salutations from the guild merchant before Rostnsthal comes in to fight with H'naanza over his debts. In the middle of this argument, an Echo is triggered in which we see Sthalmann talking to H'naanza about the delay of a personal ship he has commissioned for the Seal Rock expedition in a very ambiguous conversation that can be interpreted multiple ways and seems to be translated differently in every language, thus making the overall interpretation of this story arc rather difficult. While they are talking, the 'Cudas arrive and inform Sthalmann of the 5th's demise.

NOTE: Earlier in the quest we're told that "cadre after cadre" of mages have been going to Seal Rock, and in this scene Sthalmann says that it would have been nice to join the scholars on this trip. It's possible that the three trips made to Seal Rock as of this point were mostly under the supervision of the Arcanists with 'Cuda backup. This would explain why Sthalmann's preoccupation with local matters would frustrate him so badly that he'd have to resort to forming a Provisional (temporary for a specific purpose) Unit and buying his own boat just to ensure that "the plan" goes smoother.

The echo ends with Sthalmann and H'naanza still fighting over the lost ship he commissioned, and The Player returns to the Drowning Wench.

Legends Adrift

(Complete Transcript)

The Player's persistence about the sea serpent causes Baderon to elaborate further on the events, triggering an Echo in which we see the day Baderon was informed by a panicked adventurer of the 5th Levy's fate. Y'shtola is present at the Wench, concluding that the Barracudas are far too unhelpful in her investigation, and thus perhaps it is time to call on "less restrained" characters (pirates) aboard the Astalicia.

Coincidentally, after the Echo ends, Baderon, too, recommends that the player ask about the serpent at the Astalicia if they're looking for more information. After all, the pirates helped drive it back last time it appeared.

Rostnsthal hears you question about the sea serpent and decks you for "talking heresy," triggering an Echo of when he, as Sthalmann, boarded the Astalicia to "arrest" Emerick for his role in the destruction of the 5th Levy (likely for his own protection and to free him after the plan was complete, at least that would be the plan; chances that were the plan successful, Sthalmann would have executed Emerick and Merodaulyn as treasonous pirates and used their deeds as an excuse to bring down their respective pirate gangs in one swoop).

The echo ends and Rostnsthal apologizes for hitting you, offering that you can join his own pirate crew (of one) if you want.

Baderon informs The Player that Sisipu had stopped by looking for them; the two meet up and head back to the Gods' Grip to fish while Sisipu confides in him that she fears Seal Rock is truly Swallowtail Roam and to continue to defile it the serpent will return again. This triggers an Echo of when Sthalmann visited her there years back to tell her that the man responsible for the sahagin razing her village had been captured. He probably lifts the Key at this point, as he has it the next time he visits this spot.

The Player gets a call from Mealvaan's Gate, following up on the missing flintlock. He tries to tell them that Mannskoen took it, but presumably they know he's been dead for a while, causing the First Assessor to echo back to the day the Sirens attacked the guild thinking Emerick had been hidden there, a ploy by Merodaulyn to give Sthalmann access to the artifacts the Arcanists had removed from Seal Rock in his investigation of the "crime scene."

Never the Twain Shall Meet

(Complete Transcript)

Baderon tells The Player that the last anyone heard of Emerick, he was locked aboard a 'Cuda warship at sea, as they do with the worst criminals, and that by now he's probably long dead. Still, he's willing to forgive Hob's debts if the captain will ferry you out there to see your yourself. Afterwards, it seems to me that he calls the real Emerick, an old friend, and apprises him of the situation, making him realize that someone with the Echo has come to town...

Hob takes The Player out to the ship, as he did with Y'shtola years before, and the thought of this triggers an Echo of Hob's last visit here, when he arrived just in time to see two Serpent Reaver ships making their way towards Emerick's location. Hob frantically tries to warn the 'Cudas as The Player releases Emerick from his locked room. Merodaulyn appears and challenges him to a fight, but the scuffle is just a playful ruse.

The two don't have time to make their escape, however, as Y'shtola corners them demanding the Key, which Emerick has already passed to Sthalmann's dead drop. However, Travanchet and his Sahagin contacts don't know this, and advance on them with canons firing. Two more 'Cuda ships arrive as backup, likely already following reports of Y'shtola's interference, and engage the aggressors.

No victor can be decided, as the sea serpent rises from the depths in response to the commotion and tital waves every ship around him. Y'shtola grabs the player and simply says, "Find the key." before teleporting them away.

It turns out that The Player had fallen unconscious due to the events of the Echo, and while they were blacked out, Hob was arrested for tying his boat to a 'Cuda ship. They'd have taken the player in, too, if, had Rostnsthal not interfered on their behalf for some unknown reason.

The Player decides to turn themselves in, but first visits the Gods' Grip at Baderon's request. Why Baderon sends them there to learn about the key is beyond me... either he knew Sisipu would be there to tell him, or he had already spoken to Blackburn, who planned to be there to test if The Player really had the echo but decided not to show up while Sisipu was around. Either way, the Player heads to Coral Tower to turn themselves in.

Hob is released after some harsh interrogation and The Player tries to explain the situation to Commodore Reyer, who, at the mention of the sea serpent, recalls the day Sthalmann claimed he threw the tablet into the sea to ease the serpent and then attempted to arrest Y'shtola.

The player, not realizing that these echoes are long in the past, rushes back to the Gods' Grip to help her, but only finds Blackburn. Blackburn himself initiates the last Echo, possibly from having seen it in an echo himself.

Sthalmann confronts Y'shtola alone and the two argue over the Key's power. Sthalmann attacks, saying the Sharlayans will never understand what drives Lominsans. During the fight, the key glows and both The Player and Y'shtola together are brought into an echo within the echo in which they see Sthalmann laying out the plan with the pirates. As this second layer of echo fades, both Y'shtola and The Player are thrown backwards, which causes Y'shtola to realize what's going on. However, before she can say anything, the starshower erupts and Travanchet appears. (Question #5) He dissolves the key into his chest and evanesces into the air.

In real time, The Player has passed out again. Blackburn carries them back to the Mizzenmast and returns to Ul'dah to tell Minfilia that another has awoken.

Full Lominsan Chronology
(Best Guess Based on Current Thread Progress)

• Leviathan is first summoned, turning the Sahagin aggressive and powerful
• Seal Rock appears
  
• Maelvaan's Gate begins sending mages to investigate seal rock at the rate of roughly one a month.
• Sthalmann commissions a ship to be built by H'naanza's guild, but its construction is delayed.
• The sea serpent leaps over a ship Sthalmann is on; Y'shtola is on-board.
• Y'shtola arrives in Limsa Lominsa and begins her investigation into the Key, visiting The Drowning Wench and The Bismarck first.
• Sthalmann begins to act out his plan, bringing Emerick and Meraodaulyn into the fold.
  
• Mannskoen and Sthalmann recruit for the Seal Rock Provisional Unit. Merodaulyn is accepted.
• Emerick receives instructions from Sthalmann to deliver the 'Cuda's navigation charts and plans to the Serpent Reaver, Travanchet, along with advice on how to sabotage the Seal Rock Provisional Unit.
• The 5th Levy is attacked by Travanchet and the Serpent Reavers. It is likely that Sthalmann expected to continue onto Seal Rock in his own ship to claim the treasure and act as the sole survivor of a beastmen attack, but due to his ship being incomplete, had to have Emerick tip off Carvallain, because, in the end, it is the Kraken's ship, the Misery, that pillages the rock. Most of the crew assumes the rock to be barren upon finding no gold or jewels, but Emerick secretly secures the Key.
• Emerick hides the Key at the Gods' Grip.
• Sthalmann "arrests" Emerick from the Astalicia, where the Krakens are relaxing at the guild.
• Visiting Sisipu at the Grip.
• Merodaulyn feeds the Sirens information on Emerick being at the Mealvaan's Gate, causing the crew to attack the guild. Y'shtola is present (and the first assessor somehow knows her) and is shown a tablet recovered from the island that says that the Key can somehow be used to summon an army of some kind.
• Sthalmann uses the attack as an excuse to turn the guild into a crime scene and confiscate the tablet.
• Pirates take part in repelling the sea serpent, though Sthalmann says it was throwing the tablet into the sea that made it retreat.
• Sthalmann meets with Y'shtola alone and demands to be told how the key works, she refuses, and the two fight until Travanchet arrives and takes it for himself, revealing powers that most likely out him as an Ascian and disappearing right afterwards.
  
• --------- Years Pass ----------
• Hob’s ship carries The Player to Limsa Lominsa
• Hydaelyn awakens The Player to the Echo
• The Player is taken to the Drowning Wench along with Hob’s cargo and begins suffering uncontrolled bouts of Echo, unaware of what is truly occurring.
• Baderon helps the player get a foothold in Lominsa by commissioning a levequest for them personally, and then making an appointment to sell their balloonfish at The Bismarck and recommending them to the 'Cudas.
• The Player is rejected by the 'Cudas and accused of stealing a flintlock that was lost in an Echo flashback.
• Wawalago hires The Player to escort Sisipu to Oschon's Torch, for she is worried that those there have again been attacked by Serpent Reavers, but everyone's okay and the two return to town without incident.
• Rosthsthal argues with H'naanza at the shipyard as The Player looks for work.
• The Player investigates tales of the sea serpent at the Astalicia.
• Summoned to Mealvaan's Gate to discuss the missing flintlock, The Player blames Mannskoen, who the first assessor knows has presumably been dead for some time.
• The Player requests that Hob take them to see Emerick on the 'Cuda ship, but passes out once getting there.
• Hob is arrested, The Player goes to turn themselves in to get him freed.
• The Player rushes to the Gods' Grip to help Y'shtola, unaware that these events are long past. There, they meet Blackburn, likely to be present-day Emerick, who takes them back to the Wench after they pass out and heads back to Ul'dah to have Minfilia recruit them into the Path of the Twelve.
  

-------------------- UPDATE --------------------

Well, at this point, I think we've solved all the issues we are logically able to and the rest are too ambiguous to be solved without some type of future intervention. We end up with (I think...) a logically sound theory that does not break any established canon, but isn't proven correct, either, as any of these could go another way without impacting the overall story.

THEREFORE,
These Loremonger articles will be written with the following assumptions:

(WITH FOOTNOTES, OF COURSE)

• In Shapeless Melody, Commodore Sthalmann is in disguise aboard the Astalicia (which itself is disguised as a passenger ship), while trying to get information, through the one-eyed Captain's dealings, on Carvallain's counterfeiting and smuggling rings.

• Y'shtola is in Lominsa in 1567, "five years" after the Sahagin start "breathin' down Limsa's neck" (getting violent and more confident thanks to Leviathan, first summoned in 1562 and temporarily, corporeally defeated by the Company of Heroes shortly after). She does not use any Archon-specific powers, only various impressive mage abilities.

• At the time the sea serpent leapt over the Astalicia, it was carrying nothing of interest from Seal Rock. H'naanza was simply fishing for answers.

• Brookhaven and Oschon's Torch were burned simultaneously. The Serpent Reaver group set fire to Brookhaven while Emerick and Travanchet covertly met off to the side without notice. However, Sisipu, escaping the blaze to the familiar Puller's landmark, witnessed this transaction.

• This presumes that, "Did you catch the man who was talking to the fishes?" was ambiguous and truly meant, "Did you catch the man who gave the Sahagin information?"

• The Starshower's appearance and Travanchet's arrival will be mentioned as happening at the same time with no further elaboration or speculation on the link at this time.

If anyone finds information to the contrary, please do let me know and we will clear up any errors.

SO, BARRING ANY ONE-EYED CAPTAIN VOIDSENT OUT THERE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THOSE ASSUMPTIONS BEING MADE...


That's where I'm going to get started.
Articles coming soon, folks.
Then it's off to Gridania with Catapult!

[Anonymoose]

While the post above serves as a record of what I've put together so far, including the questions that remain, I'll start by slowly rebuilding a theory that I started developing in the GC Midlander thread and a beginning reply to Catapult's analysis of it.

The early sections of this theory posit that the Echo takes place a ship other than Hob's; a pirate ship (possibly the Astalicia). We see the night Swallowtail Roam first appears; Sthalmann is a member of a pirate crew, ordering them around the decks as he defends them from the swarm of aurelia. This is the night he realizes that Swallowtail Roam exists and begins to strategize a way to steal The Key (how he knows the individual object is beyond me, but he doesn't end up knowing enough to make it work).

This theory presumes that this Echo thus takes place about three months before the rest of the Echoes in Limsa Lominsa and that Sthalmann must have been made Commodore as part of his plan, possibly being assigned the position as a reward for influencing his captain to enter The Trident and his assistance, legitimate or not, in winning it.

When we last left off, Catapult was questioning these early assumptions. I answered some of these, but just realized that I left something important:

I will begin to answer this with a quote from Baderon in Treasures of the Main, during an Echo in which he is being questioned by Y'shtola. So far, we've been working under the assumption that Y'shtola is investigating Limsa Lominsa at the same time Thancred is investigating Ul'dah. If this is true, it is 1562.

There's a war goin' on 'twixt rival factions: Rhoswen and 'er Sanguine Sirens against Carvallain and 'is Kraken's Arms...with each an' every one of 'em lookin' to dispose of Limsa's new Admiral an' take the spot for 'emselves. Problem is, they're too busy rippin' out each other's gizzards to get 'round to doin' the chief 'imself.

There indeed has been a recent Trident, and the winner was a male. By the end of this series of quests, he will be dead by Sthalmann's design - a very short reign. It seems Merlwyb takes the chair in the next Trident, but who knows, there may have been others in-between.

IF Sthalmann was appointed as Commodore by this Admiral, it would have had to have been recently.

[Catapult]

You know, Moose, at some point you may need to decide if a question is worth answering at this point in time. A matter of priorities, if you will.

The point of me challenging your assumptions was not to try and get you to find a more solid theory, but to point out that there could be multiple theories that could fit any other scenario you needed. It doesn't really matter how Stahlmann was where he was. What matters is that Stahlmann is a commodore with ambition who saw Y'shtola as you did. Your energies may be better spent working around the more topical issues and letting this one remain unsolved for now.

Implicating the Astalicia is not implausible, because if Rostnstalh ended up there later on, it could have been a sympathetic captain who took pity on a talented man who helped save his ship from a storm despite having once been a traitorous commodore. But I wouldn't try digging too far into this, since you could end up asking more questions than you come close to answering. For example, if it is the Astalicia, how did Y'shtola end up aboard?

[Jinketsu]

I rather enjoy how Anonymoose goes through things like this to try to find all the facts behind the text. Whether or not your challenge was meant to spark his ambition is what really doesn't matter. I feel like even the simplest detail adds a sense of importance to any story, and in turn gives a more reliable sense of continuity. I'm incredibly grateful Moose has the time and effort to give towards this stuff, as it gives Fern something to do, and shows the devs we actually DO care about how well structured their world is, despite all these other Nancies complaining about quest text or skip scene options.

I kind of wish 1.x was still playable. I only got to enjoy Gridania's/Twin Adder's story myself.

[Orophin]

I think the only thing I can contribute to this is I think the flash back on the ship with Sthalmann in civvies took place 10 years prior to the present. 10 years ago is when people witnessed the meteor shower so that's the only thing that can probably be assumed with any kind of certainty.

Catapult may be right that trying to figure out why Stahlmann was where he was and why Y'shtola just happened to be there may not be as important to the story as the other events that unfold.

[Anonymoose]

It doesn't really matter how Stahlmann was where he was.

In this case, it's kind of a hierarchical thing whereby understanding the beginning goes to context for the end. We start with the "Isn't it true that you dislike raisins?" and they're all like, "I don't see where that has anything to do with the alleged crime." and you're all like, "YOU WILL RESPECT LALAFELL AUTHORITAH WHEN I SP-!" and the defense is all like, "OBJECTION, your honor, moosing the witn-" whatever, that part's not important.

Depending on whether Sthalmann is undercover on a ship he, as commodore, wouldn't be, or Y'shtola is somehow on a ship she shouldn't be goes to deciding which character's actions should be used for the basis later quetions. For instance, the Admiral likes Y'shtola, so if she was legitimately aboard the first ship, the 'Cudas could have given her a ride to Emerick's sequester ship no problem. Only Sthalmann wants her taken out. However, the fact that two of his own ships brought Y'shtola to Emerick's location is probably not something he'd let slip by him - so is it more likely that she got there via the same warping powers she used to get off the ship?

Figuring out these first questions will help put the later ones in context - whether Sthalmann was a lifetime cold bastard and Rostnsthal just has nothing to lose now /or/ if this episode was a transitional period where greed overcame an honorable outlaw and left him an emotionally crippled pirate crew of one; or whether Y'shtola is just using flashy mage skills or is showcasing Archon talents we should closer examine. After all, if the Shapeless Melody echo ship doesn't ferry passengers, what's Y'shtola even doing th-

For example, if it is the Astalicia, how did Y'shtola end up aboard?

... Balls. <hangs head in shame>

I kind of wish 1.x was still playable. I only got to enjoy Gridania's/Twin Adder's story myself.

If all goes our way, Loremonger might one day be able to fill that void. I'm rather sad that no one ever did it for FFXI.

If you ever have any suggestions to make the project better, don't hesitate to throw 'em out there. I was originally going to include the cutscenes, but they're character-specific and limited due to the Unending Journey only showing the non-interactive bits... but anything else I'd be happy to try to accommodate if it'll help make 1.X's story come alive.

10 years ago is when people witnessed the meteor shower so that's the only thing that can probably be assumed with any kind of certainty.

We three seem to be on the same page about that one. Thancred's storyline states that it's 10 years ago, and the three cities' stories seem to be "separate but equal" in spacing, content, and rewards in most cases.

Catapult may be right that trying to figure out why Stahlmann was where he was and why Y'shtola just happened to be there may not be as important to the story as the other events that unfold.

Aye, he very well might be. Mostly those questions are here to just get us started as I move onto Treasures of the Main and beyond with my issues in getting this chapter of the lore compendium to a close. I don't deny for a single second that, once all four quests have their hang-ups posted, that we might figure out some solutions that work well enough that we look back on what Sthalmann was doing there and think, "Well, who cares?" ... for now, though, all bets are on the table; I won't ask "who cares" about the base setting of the story just yet. After, all...

WWFD?

[Mjollnir]

I've spent a good portion of the day on this. I've typed up two posts that have failed to post and I really don't have time atm to do them again even briefly.

Google "one-eyed Hyllfyr". Hyllfyr is Sthalmann. The current Hyllfyr is a previous crew member impersonating him. The ship at the start is the Asticlia. They've come through time with SR and the Sea Serpent. Emeric and Merodaulyn are part of that crew.

I promise I'll back a lot of those statements up in a couple of hours, but you might have added this all up yourself by then. If you end up thinking that you may well be a sleeper agent for the Ascians, you've probably ended up at the same conclusion as I!

[Orophin]

I've spent a good portion of the day on this. I've typed up two posts that have failed to post and I really don't have time atm to do them again even briefly.

Google "one-eyed Hyllfyr". Hyllfyr is Sthalmann. The current Hyllfyr is a previous crew member impersonating him. The ship at the start is the Asticlia. They've come through time with SR and the Sea Serpent. Emeric and Merodaulyn are part of that crew.

I promise I'll back a lot of those statements up in a couple of hours, but you might have added this all up yourself by then. If you end up thinking that you may well be a sleeper agent for the Ascians, you've probably ended up at the same conclusion as I!

I'll have to reflect on this further, but I think just due to the striking similarities between Sthalmann and Rostnstahl (same scar on the eye, same beard, same complexion) that it can't be Hyllfyr. He doesn't look similar at all. That and Moose gave a good explanation on the naming earlier. Stahlmann = man of steel, Rostnstahl = rusty steel (a man fallen from grace)

Here's a really good post about Hyllfyr and The Bloody Executioners (I took your advice and Google'd it)

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Bloody_Executioners

[Anonymoose]

I've typed up two posts that have failed to post

Dude, did you do that thing where you type out PAGES in the Quick Reply box and then accidentally click the giant [+ Reply to Thread] because your brain implicitly thinks, "Yeah, that's what I want to do!" and then it takes you to a new window and dumps the whole thing and your back button does nossing?! NOSSSSIIINNGGG?!

I do that ALL THE DAMN TIME. I fracking hate that button.

Anyway, that's an interesting take on things... I, too, am looking forward to what on Hydaelyn drives this conspiracy.

In the meantime, I found more information that both supports and necessitates changes to my theory:

In the Marauder storyline, Waekbyrt recruits you into the Bloody Executioners, a pirate gang at the core of the Marauder's Guild (Marauder is called Executioner in the Japanese verison) run by the Astalicia's captain. Waekbyrt flat out says:

If he takes the Admiral's chair, that makes me an official Knight o' the Barracuda

So, in 1562, Lominsa's Admiral is new, he's male, and anyone on his crew is now officially a Knight of the Barracuda. If the events of Shapeless Melody show the first night Swallowtail Roam appeared, and if Y'shtola's invesigation takes place in tandem with Thancred's in Ul'dah, it makes sense that it is in this gap of time that Sthalmann's captain wins the Trident and makes him, who we see to be a respected man on the echo ship, a Commodore.

This means, in context, if the above is true, that we should be looking far closer at how Y'shtola got there and why she was able to basically jump three months ahead into her investigation.

HOWEVER, Hyllfyr has been captain of the Astalicia for ages. He's a reputation unmatched in Eorzea. He didn't win the Trident before, or he'd be dead. So maybe it wasn't the Astalicia we saw in Shapeless Melody...

I think it's time I restart my analysis of Treasures of the Main with a fresh and open-minded lens and really just hit the books on this.

[Mjollnir]

I'll have to reflect on this further, but I think just due to the striking similarities between Sthalmann and Rostnstahl (same scar on the eye, same beard, same complexion) that it can't be Hyllfyr. He doesn't look similar at all. That and Moose gave a good explanation on the naming earlier. Stahlmann = man of steel, Rostnstahl = rusty steel (a man fallen from grace)

No, Moose is correct, Sthalmann and Rostnstahl are definitely one in the same, no question. He is *also* the original Hyllfyr. He was replaced by a dark-skinned, two-eyed, white bearded chap after he took on the Sthalmann identity.

Here's a really good post about Hyllfyr and The Bloody Executioners (I took your advice and Google'd it)l

That text is from the 1.0 website.

Dude, did you do that thing where you type out PAGES in the Quick Reply box and then accidentally click the giant [+ Reply to Thread] because your brain implicitly thinks, "Yeah, that's what I want to do!" and then it takes you to a new window and dumps the whole thing and your back button does nossing?! NOSSSSIIINNGGG?!

No, some token error. Refreshed and I was still logged in. Reposted, same error. Logged out, logged in, minipost. Stupid site/browser.

I think it's time I restart my analysis of Treasures of the Main with a fresh and open-minded lens and really just hit the books on this.

You in chat? It'll probably be quicker if I can discuss stuff with you instead of doing long posts back and forth. What I've found doesn't fit with the couple of statements you just made