Padjal Naming Conventions?

[Sounsyy]

So I have a lore question about the Padjal that's been bugging me for a while and this seemed the best place to pose it.

So we know Elezen were the first race to migrate to Eorzea. They came from the north and inhabited the Twelveswood, underground in the city of Gelmorra. I've always associated Gelmorra and Padjal together because it wasn't until the Padjal learned to speak with the elementals that the inhabitants of Gelmorra were allowed to live above ground in the Twelveswood. Pact of Gelmorra I believe it was called.

In Fern's post it said to associate all things Padjal with something really old. But Fern said that Padjal are all Hyur. Hyur didn't migrate to Eorzea until c.572 of the Sixth Astral Era. In the grand scheme of the Eorzean timeline, 1000 years doesn't seem really old. I had always thought that the Pact of Gelmorra happened long before then.

So did Elezen live under the ground in Gelmorra until the Padjali Hyur came c.572? They couldn't have because the Order of the Twin Adder existed 1500 years ago during the sixth Umbral Era. And according to the Raven: Light of the Future article, conjury was created and refined as a way for the Gelmorrans to communicate with the Elementals. But according to the White Mage quest, White Mages existed in the Fifth Astral Era, long before the supposed advent of conjury according to this line of thought. So was there White Magic before there was Conjury?


So I guess the questions I have for Fernehalwes are:

When did the Elezen build Gelmorra?
If Elezen and Hyur get into territorial wars every time they come near each other, how did Hyur's become an intricate part of Gelmorran society?
How did the Hyur even find Gelmorra if it was underground in the middle of an angry, impassable forest?
When was the Pact of Gelmorra made?
When was Gridania founded?
Was the original Grand Company of the Twin Adder Gridanian or Gelmorran? Or is the Twin Adder a brand new company that did not exist back in the Sixth Umbral Era?


So either this is a major flaw in the Gridanian/Gelmorran lore or Gelmorra wasn't founded until circa the year 600 of the Sixth Astral Era and 1.0 players witnessed the birth of the Twin Adder Grand Company. Which would make Gridania/Gelmorra the youngest city-state in Eorzea. Which raises the question of where did the Elezen make their home before Gelmorra? And how did White Magic exist before and without Conjury?

[Catapult]

Now I can't remember where I read it in-game (and it's not like I can go hunting right now), but iirc Gridania is only about 500 years old.

((This also forms part of our "the grand companies existed at the last calamity" conundrum.))

The wall markings inside the various Gelmorran ruins we've seen so far suggest the concept of the twin adder, representing unity between Elezen and Hyur, existed before the emergence into Gridania.

On a tangent, would it be reasonble to doubt that the padjal are the only keepers of white magic secrets? Could the Hyur have brought it back in their migrationary waves after it was banaished in a preceding umbral? Could White Magic have laid the foundation for the Conjury that resulted in reconciliation with the Elementals?

[Hestern_Nestern]

Now I can't remember where I read it in-game (and it's not like I can go hunting right now), but iirc Gridania is only about 500 years old.

((This also forms part of our "the grand companies existed at the last calamity" conundrum.))

The wall markings inside the various Gelmorran ruins we've seen so far suggest the concept of the twin adder, representing unity between Elezen and Hyur, existed before the emergence into Gridania.

On a tangent, would it be reasonble to doubt that the padjal are the only keepers of white magic secrets? Could the Hyur have brought it back in their migrationary waves after it was banaished in a preceding umbral? Could White Magic have laid the foundation for the Conjury that resulted in reconciliation with the Elementals?

Okay so I am kind of taking all of you on your words about past in-game lore references, so forgive me if I do not make any sense.

Sounsyy said that White Magic was something forgotten or abandoned in the 5th Astral Era, right? And we have established that the Padjal came later when the Hyurs joined Gelmorra, long after white magic was discarded, right? I haven't actually done the White Mage Job quest yet -- that is, I didn't do it in 1.0 -- so maybe I am missing something there -- but that would lead me to believe that the Padjal cannot be the only keepers of white magic secrets, this meaning that I find myself in agreement with what you were just proposing, Catapult. That is, if White Magic preceded Padjali. That being said, maybe white magic did lend the foundation for conjury, perhaps from the Padjali discovering it somehow, maybe by way of commune with the elementals, which would also mean that conjury happened during the reconciliation with the elementals as opposed to as a result of such, non? Do we know who the original white mages were in the 5th astral era or what white magic was primarily used for then or why it was abandoned/forgotton at all (my grammar is awful here)? The elementals, fearing the return of the intense white magic, might have conveyed only a small part of it in this new conception of conjury, tempered by a need to keep balance through use of selective elementally aggressive magic, and an insistence to follow their will (to avoid another white magic disaster? Again, presuming there was a dramatic reason why it was abandoned/forgotten in the 5th Astral Era).

And why does my bloody internet browser think that "elementals" and "conjury" do not exist as words? Curse ye, Chrome. Curse ye.

(Oh, and please help me sort out how to properly pluralize Padjal and where to do so and which suffix means what in where. Padjali is the plural? Maybe? Or is it like "belonging to Padjal" there? )

[Sounsyy]

Oh, and please help me sort out how to properly pluralize Padjal and where to do so and which suffix means what in where. Padjali is the plural? Maybe? Or is it like "belonging to Padjal" there?

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think "Padjal" can be used as both singular and plural. Like moose. I believe "Padjali" is descriptive of something belonging to the Padjal. Like the Padjali language. Padjali magic. But you can run into one Padjal or two Padjal in the Shroud.


As for the WHM questline, it didn't go into a ton of detail, but the gist was that during the 5th Astral Era many White Mages abused their power (causing the Sixth Umbral Era) and it became a forbidden practice. And only select Padjal are permitted to use it and keep the knowledge of it alive.

White magic and conjury are close relations, the two governed by the same laws. The former, however, places the utmost importance on healing and protection, and demands of practitioners the greatest intimacy with the Elementals. On account of this, its use is forbidden to all but those few who are deemed worthy. It is the sacred charge of we Padjal to ensure that the art survives, and in righteous hands.

-Raya-O-Senna, Seeds of Initiative

Hast thou forgotten the pact of Gelmorra? The powers granted to the Padjal must not be used in conflict.

-Oha-Sok, Lost In Rage

The Fifth Astral Era is said to have begun approximately three millennia ago. The ice age that ushered in the Fifth Umbral Era made the land a barren and merciless place, and man was pushed to the limits of his resourcefulness in the struggle to survive. Yet survive he did, through the discovery of magic as we know it - an event which marked the dawning of the Fifth Astral Era.

At first, man was well pleased just to keep the cold at bay and compete with the other races. But man is nothing if not an ambitious beast. It was not long before he sought mightier magicks, hoping to win greater glory. It was this desire that brought forth Black Magic, the arcane art of destruction, into the world. In order that this force of chaos be kept in check and balance preserved, at roughly the same point in history, white magic, the arcane art of succor, came into existence.

Emboldened by magic, man went on to reach the zenith of glory. But his hunger knew no bounds. Over time, even they who donned the white began perverting their powers for the sake of self-gain, and in this single minded pursuit scrupled not to sully the sanctity of the Twelveswood. In his pride and avarice, man brought down the wrath of the Elementals upon himself. A great deluge was sent to cleanse the land of his wicked presence, in the wake of which the forest rose to swallow up all that was not washed away. Thus did the Sixth Umbral Era begin.

-Raya-O-Senna, The Wheel of Disaster



So going over this quest text brings up a new theory. So let's say that the Elementals used to permit man to live within the Twelveswood during the 4th and 5th Astral Eras. Man discovers magic. Man starts to destroy and pervert even the purest magicks for personal gain. The Elementals wrath ushers in the 6th Umbral Era flood and the forests rise to bury all those within. The Elementals forbid man from using White Magic on account of this. Maybe this is why man is not permitted to live within the forest during the Sixth Astral Era. They are forced to live underground. Until the Padjal learn the art of Conjury to commune with the Elementals. This gives way to a pact that man can once more live amongst them so long as no harm comes to the forest and the Elementals gifts are not used for destruction or self-gain. Which would explain why Gridanians take nothing in abundance, kill only when directed by the elementals, and fear outsiders. Gridanians do not want the outsiders breaking the pact and causing another Umbral event because the Wrath of the Elementals does not distinguish between protector and defiler.

Going down this line of thought, neither Gridania nor Gelmorra would have existed in the 5th Umbral Era. Therefor the Twin Adders could not exist as we know it today. So the question becomes, who lived in the Twelveswood before the Gelmorrans?

[Sanadaiyeve]

The hyur girl, Fye (spelling?), used her own life energy to fuel her whm spells. She deliberately refused to learn the proper means of casting healing spells and was a threat to herself. This may be why, in those eras mentioned, that white magick was banned through whm ignorance as to a proper source for channeling their heals.

[Sanadaiyeve]

The hyur girl, Fye (spelling?), used her own life energy to fuel her whm spells. She deliberately refused to learn the proper means of casting healing spells and was a threat to herself. This may be why, in those eras mentioned, that white magick was banned through whm ignorance as to a proper source for channeling their heals.

As for who was using white magick before conjury was created this could well be individuals like Fye and her mother who could , unknowingly, tap into their life force to cast powerful heals.

And if these types of healers were busy accidently killing themselves through Raise, could they have revived or will they in 2.0 revive so and so's given that they are unbound by the conjurer's rules.

[Sounsyy]

She deliberately refused to learn the proper means of casting healing spells and was a threat to herself. This may be why, in those eras mentioned, that white magick was banned through whm ignorance as to a proper source for channeling their heals.

While Raya-O-Senna is probably not the most reliable source on the subject, she mentions that White Magic was originally created as a balance to the destructive force of Black Magic. And that it became forbidden as a result of White Mages abusing their healing powers for self gain.

I wouldn't really count self-sacrificing magic as using your powers for self gain. Seems pretty close to the definition of a selfless act to me. I image the abuse of power that White Mages were accused of by the Elementals was something closer to seeking profit for healing. Maybe altering the aetherial form of the magic to harm rather than to heal. Something along those lines. What the girl is doing in the new ARR CNJ questline seems more akin to a form of 1.0's Thaumaturgy than the essence of Conjury.

Conjury draws from the power from the earth and aether and channels that energy into a spell. Whereas, Thaumaturgy drains the aetherial stores of the caster's own body. Like how in the new THM class quests the youngest of the seven lalafell brothers simply does not possess enough aether to sufficiently cast a spell without doing himself harm.

[Catapult]

The hyur girl, Fye (spelling?), used her own life energy to fuel her whm spells.

Wrong character, sweetie. Fye was a child fifteen years ago and we haven't seen her since.