Lore Questions: Why is Gridania's Flag Yellow, and What do the 'Twin Adders' Mean?

[HiirNoivl]

Hrmmm...

Can someone get me a date on the Autmun War and the stuff that happened on Finesand Banks?
I want to pin a few more things down.

From the flyer, My Little Chocobo Makeover
The Tragic Ride of Ouranos

Allow me, if you will, to venture some hundred years into the past, as I recount for you today a tale of bravery, loyalty, and heroism the likes of which our Eorzea has not seen since. The date is 1468 of the Sixth Astral Era. The forces of Ala Mhigo have crossed the Velodyna River, whose waters form the border with neighboring Gridania, and now claim dominion over the East Shroud. With its invasion into these lands sacred to the forestborn, Ala Mhigo, a garrison state known for its jingoism and expansionist ambitions, sparks what will come to be known as the Autumn War.

A History Lesson with Erik: Finesand Banks

They are found on the west shore of the Velodyna River, at the foot of a now extinct volcano overlooking Rothlyt Sound. The area is a sedimentary basin formed by the deposit of the fine silts and sands carried by the river. Today, it falls within Gridanian territory, but in days past it belonged to my own home nation─Ala Mhigo. A century ago, King Manfred came to power in Ala Mhigo and decided to expand the nation's territory in order to promote economic growth. To that end, he ordered the Ala Mhigan army to undertake large-scale campaigns that would eventually lead to the onset of the Autumn War.

[Catapult]

Ok. About a Century. Thanks.

[Catapult]

The forests, of which the Black Shroud is the tangled heart, have been home to the Wildwood Elezen for hundreds of years.

and

The Elezen once claimed sole dominion over Eorzea, their presence predating that of the other races, and, as such, developed a heightened sense of honor and pride.

and

For the past several centuries, the Duskwight Elezen have lived in the woodland caverns of Eorzea. These cave-dwelling Elezen are the descendants of a branch that split from the main Wildwood clan during the founding of Gridania. The Duskwight despise the "shackles" of urban life, and it is not uncommon for this reclusive people to avoid the city-states altogether.

SO. If the Elezen were around for thousands of years allowing them to pre-date the Miqo'te's arrival in the 5th Umbral Era, and if their presence in Gridania can be measured in terms of hundreds of years, and if the blazon of Gridania was established fiv-something something ago, and if at this time the duskwight/wildwood split was established by the Duskwight deciding to live underground, then I have an educated guess to make:

Gridania was established as a city-state about five hundred years ago, concurrent with the pact of Gelmorra between the padal and elementals. This marked the end of the Gelmorran civilisation.
(Ok, that second sentence I'm more shaky on my evidence for.)

Next up: Working about why people would speak of the re-formation of the Order of the Twin Adder when Gridania didn't even exist 1500 years ago when the companies were last seen. Does it stem from a Gelmorran tradition...?

[Enkidoh]

That info about Ala Mihgo actually answered another question that was I going to ask as another thread - what exactly was Ala Mihgo's form of government prior to their invasion and annexation by Garlemald? The only information I knew about Ala Mihgan society was thus:

That prior to the Imperial invasion they were stated as being 'the strongest' and 'most technologically advanced of the Eorzean city states' (original website and manual)
That their standing armies originally consisted amongst other things of MNKs and LNCs (official website and original manual), but also included apparently GLAs and Disciples of Magic as well (Minfilia at the start of the Future's Perfect scenario quest)
That it was the ancestral home of the Highlander Hyur clan (official website)
That they have a slightly stubborn sense of honour, pride and justice that even as refugees they continue to adhere to (GLA class quests)
That they revered Rhalgar the Destroyer as their guardian deity of the Twelve (official website and various sources in game)
That the city was turned into a fortress after the invasion, and has been sealed off from the outside world by a huge wall (Future's Perfect scenario quest)
That their style of dress seems to be rather... skimpy to say the least (appearance of the Ala Mihgan Resistance members during Future's Perfect and Of Men They Sing)

But I never could find any information as to what exactly their government was prior to Gaius coming knocking with the XIVth Legion, until now. Thanks for that HiirNoivi and Catapult!

Back on original topic though, I just remembered something in regards to the choice of colour for Gridania's flag - and the reason why it was yellow and not green was so obvious. Because green is the colour of nature - as a nation that reveres nature and especially the elementals that are the voice and power of the natural world (specifically the forest), then it stands to reason that the Gridanians would also revere the colour of nature to the point of regarding it as so sacred and holy, that even to depict it on their flag would be blasphemous. After all, everything in their society is dictated by the elementals, so maybe yellow was the only colour the Gridanians were permitted to use and not green?

There is actually precedent in real-world mythology for this too - in particular, modern-day folklore, and a somewhat unlikely example. In modern folklore, as mentioned here on http://www.snopes.com/autos/cursed/green.asp , green is considered to be the worst colour to choose for a car. Apparently they are more likely to break down, suffer accidents, get stolen or have their drivers pulled over by the police, and the reason for this is exactly what I just mentioned about Gridania and the elementals.

Because green is the colour of nature, earth spirits are supposed to take offense at humanity's perversion of their sacred colour on their mechanical contraptions, and react accordingly. Of course, the real world aspect take with a grain of salt, but it does seem to ring true, and definitely fits in well with Gridania's lore and their pact with the elementals.

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

[Catapult]

I'm not sure I'd buy into that colour argument, but I can answer your other question.

Ala Mhigo was a monarchy, probably one where the king retained supremity, unlike in Ul'dah.
Erik's history lessons tell us about the ambition of the former Ala Mhigan King, his wars against Gridania and his quarrels with the Fist of Rhalgr.

[Enkidoh]

Yeah, I understand that now thanks to HiirNoivl's post. An absolute monarchy with a king as it's head of state. San d'Oria anyone? Thanks for that.

As for my earlier post about the colour of Gridania's flag, I just thought the idea of green being considered a sacred colour of the earth did fit in with Gridania's storyline. But I'm probably wrong in hindsight. Ah well, it's a nice theory anyway.

[Catapult]

Epic bump, because Beta is being nice to me today.

The level 20 quest reveals a few things with great clarity.

Gridania was founded by Hyur and Elezen Settlers 500 years ago, once they made peace with the elementals and were permitted to live above ground (Gelmorra being below ground).

The entwined serpents of the Gridanian Standard represent the unity between the Hyur and elezen Settlers.

I haven't yet found what the lotus flower definitively represents, but I suspect it is something to do with their accord with the forest.

[rina_inverse]

Well Lotus has a perfect circle, might as well it the standard "harmony" "circle" that the Japanese often use

[Enkidoh]

Well, that makes a lot of sense - even though I already knew about

Gelmorra's history and the agreement with the elementals

, at least now my question has been answered (yes, I couldn't help but peek at that spoiler, even though I haven't reached level 20 in the Beta yet) - that makes perfect sense.

Thanks for the clarification Catapult! (oh, and I also found your reference in Limsa - that is so cool! ).

[Orophin]

Yeah I remember the twins talking about the different nations' standards and what they meant during the quest to jumpstart the memorial for those lost at Carteneau, I just didn't post about it. :x