[Dev 1011] Failing Guildleves Intentionally?

[Reika]

Easy solution to this is fix the other Leves of the same rank in the game at every camp to be equally as good when it comes to SP. no one wants to be stuck with a levequest that only has 4 monsters to kill, when they can keep the levequests where you have 20 monsters to kill.

I also think SE said it was OK to do the fail method, because you dont get the reward for failing it.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

First, it's not an exploit. The devs have said as much themselves for one.

Second, like others have mentioned, the lack of unique or comparable leve-quests make this almost a necessity to keep people logging on and leveling at this point.

[Jibe]

If someone could post a link pointing to the post where devs said it was ok I would really appreciate it. That's really what i was looking for, some sort of feedback from the development on this issue. I follow the dev posts incredibly closely, but I must have missed that one somehow.

I, personally feel it smells like an exploit and I don't do it, but many in my ls do and I don't try to tell other people what they can and cant do. If you want to do it, that's your choice.

That said, it would be would be a very tough thing to fix fairly. I think the best option is to normalize sp gained from leves to remove the incentive to do this, like has been suggested by other posts in this thread. As long as some level reward much more sp than others and the system remains the same as it is now, this will continue.

Devs, please chime in on this thread. And again if someone could post a link to the previous dev feedback on this issue I will give you a cookie.

[AngryNixon]

SE can add more than 7-8 leves in the entire game that are worth doing and I'm sure people will consider not intentionally failing them to keep them on lock for the next reset. "Normalizing" SP across leves is probably a good solution since it removes the impetus to hold on to the only thing worth your time.

As was mentioned, you forgo the reward in favour of SP in this case. I suppose you forgo faction points too but I guess that's part of the "reward".

To the OP: I'm curious on a side note if you don't keep the worthwhile leves how well you fare getting leve parties? The question is not intended negatively I'm just curious.

[Jibe]

@ angry - I stopped doing leve parties when I realized everyone does the failing thing. Just doing crafting now.

[AlexiaKidd]

Alexia can you copy your op into the thread I made in the guild leves section of the forums about abandoning leves? The thread you already posted in. I love your idea and I would think the devs should see it. Very very good idea imo.

As you wish:

Guildleves, the content you love to hate

So I have been thinking of how SE could improve Guildleves and solve many of the issues with them ie. abandoning them, only picking certain ones, certain camps over-crowded and have come up with a few idea's.

First though I believe the original plan for Guildleves as we have them now was that it was supposed to be more casual/quick content in that you could login and grab some leves and go do them. The main problem is that they are pretty much the only content, so everyone is doing them as they have nothing else to do. Also certain Leve's are better than others in the the SP/EXP gained so this also make Leve Abandoning to keep these certain Leve's more effective.

My first fix would be to allow all 9 Leve's to be available for selection every reset for every camp. This would allow people to freely choose the Leve's they wish to do so if they are in a group they can make sure they get the same ones to link if they wish.

Next would be to change the way Leve SP/EXP is accumulated. For this maybe it would be better to give a lump sum of SP/EXP at the end of the Leve upon completion and remove the SP/EXP gained from the mobs killed. This would have to be scaled in different ways though. For example all Rank 20 Leves gave 5000 SP upon completion, Rank 30 gave 10,000, Rank 40 15,000 and so on. That would be the base, then you could add a multiplier for difficulty with the number of stars the Leve was completed on. Maybe 5% per star so if 10,000 was the base and you completed it on 5 stars you would get 15,000 SP/EXP. If they were to give static SP then they would have to probably have a minimum rank restriction in place to stop Rank ones tagging along on R40 Leve's.

By doing these two things it would allow people to spread out and utilise different camps to do Leve's as all Leve's of the same Rank would give the same SP/EXP so there would be no need for everyone to go to Broken Water to do the best R40 Leves. Also it would stop Leve abandoning as you could decide with your group before hand which Leves you were going to take and obviously if you abandoned you would get nothing as the SP/EXP is rewarded at the end. This would also allow you to retry Leve's immediately if you did fail or D/C as it wouldn't be exploitable because the SP/EXP and reward is only gained upon completion. So if you D/C halfway though the Leve they could allow you to retry straight away as you wouldn't have gained any SP/EXP until the end anyway.

I think with just these two changes it would help a lot with the current situation regarding Leves and make them a bit more enjoyable as players will be able to go out and try different Leves at different camps without feeling like they are missing out on huge amounts of SP/EXP by taking different ones.

[TheVedis]

The devs already stated that it was fine as the trade off is you don't get the reward for completing the leve.

Dont forget that this feature was specificaly added so we could repeat failed leves.

Yes folks, the feature was ADDED.

it is not an exploit
it is not cheating

the devs specificaly added this feature to repat leves if you fail them.

[Jinko]

My first fix would be to allow all 9 Leve's to be available for selection every reset for every camp. This would allow people to freely choose the Leve's they wish to do so if they are in a group they can make sure they get the same ones to link if they wish.

Agree with this !

Next would be to change the way Leve SP/EXP is accumulated. For this maybe it would be better to give a lump sum of SP/EXP at the end of the Leve upon completion and remove the SP/EXP gained from the mobs killed.

Agree with this!

I have a static group where we all leve link the same leves to maximize our SP gains, the reason we fail is so that we can all be on the same leves for the next reset, I see no harm in this, it doesn't hurt anyone else and as someone else stated we lose out on the reward so it seems to even out in my opinion.

Of course if SE allowed us to choose any of the available leves on reset then there wouldn't be an issue.

[Jibe]

Agree with this !

I have a static group where we all leve link the same leves to maximize our SP gains, the reason we fail is so that we can all be on the same leves for the next reset, I see no harm in this, it doesn't hurt anyone else and as someone else stated we lose out on the reward so it seems to even out in my opinion.

Of course if SE allowed us to choose any of the available leves on reset then we would complete them most likely.

I do not doubt that it does not hurt anyone else. My qualm is that it seems kind of contrary to the spirit of the game that in order to get ahead you have to intentionally fail something. It seems contrary to the spirit of the game that in order to get maximum sp you have to intentionally fail leves.

Yoshi said he thought it was contrary to the spirit of the game to have people death warping, and I think that this is along those same lines. Some people might not think so, that is just the way I feel. Forfeiting your life to arrive somewhere faster is along the same lines as failing a leve to obtain more sp, imo.

[Shaily]

I think one of the problems here is that many people care far less about the rewards than they do about the SP/XP. Right now, it seems most of the leves give gil as a reward. Some give marks, or gear, or crystals, but most just money. And gil is very, very easy to come by the way things are now. Just having a certain amount of gil is not going to be enough incentive for a lot of people to actually complete a leve. That, in my opinion, is what the developers are failing to see when they claim the failing method is "fine".

I like the idea of making every leve (of the same rank) worth the same amount of SP/XP, and having the SP/XP only being rewarded when the leve is finished, with the option to immediately try again if you fail. If that idea isn't seriously considered, I hope the developers at least take the time to consider that people will not stop failing the leves until it becomes worth their while to actually finish them. Gil alone isn't worth it.