Conjecture Question..Any evidence to support/reject this theory concerning Echo?

[Yrusama]

Wouldn't leaving a strong enough impression change the past then? at least for that person?

There's a big difference between planting a memory of your presence and actually changing an event. However, I feel like the THM36 quest had a situation where the errant Lalafell THM was made aware of your echo jumping, and was able to anticipate when you'd show up. I'd have to watch those cutscenes again, though.

In any case, it's as simple as the difference between planting a memory of your presence within the present-time Echoed person and planting awareness of your presence in the Echoed person's past self

[Mjollnir]

My personal belief was that it was a developer's oversight.

Certainly possible, but considering the attention to detail so far, I can't subscribe to that theory (unless we get confirmation).

I'm leaning more toward that Y'shtola, Derplander and other members of the Path of the Twelve have the Echo ability, but our character is different. All those folk presume our ability is the same as theirs, but it's a little different due in the main to the intervention of Hydaelyn at the start of the game.

Did our character actually pop into existence at that moment? (certainly possible for the Grid start, easily overlooked in a busy cabin in Limsa's, less likely as one of three on a caravan in Ul'dah's, so perhaps not)

[Catapult]

then I move onto punching up Catapult's articles with images / missed dialogue (assuming there is any) because he has outpaced me entirely

Lol. I dumped and formatted my text for those quests before Loremonger even came into existance, so I had a bit of a head start. Not to mention that the Gridanian plot is a little bit less brain-frying.

That being said, my breakdowns contradict Jacien's assertions about the echo on some points. I'll try and explain my position as best as I can.

This is a Final Fantasy game, one of the most powerful brands of JRPG. A common trend in these stories is that the lead character is designed with the purpose of breaking the limits society places upon them. XIII spoilers...

To quote Lightning when she is told she overreaches herself by Orphen:
"We make the impossible possible."

As Moose has pointed out, the limitations of the echo are given to us by Minfillia. It is her assertion alone that we cannot unwrite what is written. Meanwhile, Minfilia's skill is not very remarkable - she does not have the gift of tongues. There is another person in the waking sands who conversely has only the gift of tongues (to a very high level of mastery) but cannot echo-jump.
But you are the main character in this story. It stands to reason that you are unique and will break things, including your foes, expectations and perceived rules.

The opening sequence already does this, notably for the Gridanian one. Minfilia has asserted that the echo allows us to breach the wall of a person's soul. Maybe that is her limitation and the limitation of most. But the CG Midlander does it off a leve plate and in the Gridanian opening you do it in the presence of no one.

You've even gone so far as to bring things back with you. The treant vine, baloon fish and velodyna cosmos are things you shouldn't have had if you were merely influencing someone's memory.

And if you were only affecting someone's memory, how does that affect someone else's memory? Why would Thancred, Yda or Y'shtola have any reason to recognise you come Futures Perfect or the Grand Company sequences?

It is clear to me that we are, by design, breaking the perceived rules with our own unique strain of the echo and doing more than just observing history through someone's memory. Yes, I believe we are subtly changing history in a way that is beyond the comprehension of those that have come before us.

Unfortunately, when Minifilia tells us the "rules", this creates psychological limits on what we could have naïvely achieved if we didn't know what our limits were.

[Soukyuu]

What if Hydaelyn itself was the "being" that was the third party echoing our character? Or possibly the 12 doing it? After all we are the main character of this game, we could be epically this special. Yeah I know a bit grasping at straws, but its tickles my fancy to think its possible.

Wasn't there a hint somewhere that the "mother crystal" (= Hydaelyn) is the entity that gave us the echo? Something about Ifrit smelling another Primal actually just smelling aether on us, and the mother crystal being the source of that aether?

[Lady]

Wasn't there a hint somewhere that the "mother crystal" (= Hydaelyn) is the entity that gave us the echo? Something about Ifrit smelling another Primal actually just smelling aether on us, and the mother crystal being the source of that aether?

I remember something like this, and I believe it was talked about in the CG Midlander thread, which is what made me mention Hydaelyn as the third party needed for the echo. But seeing further comments about how their may not need to be a third party kind makes the point moot.

[Anonymoose]

Yoshida-san did confirm in a recent interview with GE that the planet's lifeforce (aether) has indeed formed "The Mothercrystal." This is the source of the imagery in the recent trailers - "Heed the Crystal's Call" and all that.

Though - in my opinion, Ifrit doesn't seem to be smelling aether on you. He gets defensive and inquisitive - he demands to know the identity of whom left this taint on you and starts listing Primals. If he smelled aether, would he not have just been like, "FETCH ME SOME DIPPING SAUCE FOR THIS ... THIS DELICIOUS... THING."?

I'm curious as all hells to know what he's talking about. Is this just pre-mothercrystal? The lore team seems to have had a lot of this in motion from ages ago, so probably not - then what!? We know The Twelve may not be what the mythology says - maybe they smell tainty? Or maybe there's a primal on our backs after all... (OPEN DOOR: SIREN. BOOM. CALLED IT. /sarcasm) For all we know, seeing as the Twelve seem to symbolize the Greek Olympians and the Primals would thus be the Titans - they might be similar beings and smell alike, as well.

Cannot waaaait to play this storyline.

[Adelle]

The Echo is not based on time travel, its based on seeing things in the past, when you arrive in uldah and the light shown on you, that was the echo, the time you spent between arriving in uldah and meeting the path of the twelve was all roughly the same day/week. 10 years hadnt past, you just saw visions of what had transpired 10 years ago

[Orophin]

Yoshida-san did confirm in a recent interview with GE that the planet's lifeforce (aether) has indeed formed "The Mothercrystal." This is the source of the imagery in the recent trailers - "Heed the Crystal's Call" and all that.

Though - in my opinion, Ifrit doesn't seem to be smelling aether on you. He gets defensive and inquisitive - he demands to know the identity of whom left this taint on you and starts listing Primals. If he smelled aether, would he not have just been like, "FETCH ME SOME DIPPING SAUCE FOR THIS ... THIS DELICIOUS... THING."?

I'm curious as all hells to know what he's talking about. Is this just pre-mothercrystal? The lore team seems to have had a lot of this in motion from ages ago, so probably not - then what!? We know The Twelve may not be what the mythology says - maybe they smell tainty? Or maybe there's a primal on our backs after all... (OPEN DOOR: SIREN. BOOM. CALLED IT. /sarcasm) For all we know, seeing as the Twelve seem to symbolize the Greek Olympians and the Primals would thus be the Titans - they might be similar beings and smell alike, as well.

Cannot waaaait to play this storyline.

The whole five races being associated with a Primal is still pretty sketchy to me. I know Ifrit alludes to there being one, but the Sylphs warn about summoning a Primal as it seems to have a malevolent effect on those involved with the summoning. This can be seen especially in the Ixali and Amal'jaa. That's why I'm thinking there won't be a Primal representing the humanoid races, and instead has been replaced with the Mother Crystal.

[Anonymoose]

The whole five races being associated with a Primal is still pretty sketchy to me. I know Ifrit alludes to there being one, but the Sylphs warn about summoning a Primal as it seems to have a malevolent effect on those involved with the summoning. This can be seen especially in the Ixali and Amal'jaa. That's why I'm thinking there won't be a Primal representing the humanoid races, and instead has been replaced with the Mother Crystal.

Ahhh, but wouldn't that be the crux of the drama? In order to summon your primal you have to know you have one. For instance, if we compare the Amal and Ixal to the Sylphs, it's clear which ones have been getting primal "blessings," as you say. But the Sylphs clearly know they have a primal as well - they just don't do its bidding and thus receive no "blessings" like murderous and obsessive control issues and intimidating physiques.

It's likely that a primal chooses a community (like a tribe) and tries to coax them into it slowly - talks to them, shares arcane and sage knowledge, gives them comfort ... then it starts asking for things... break this alliance, move into that area, disregard the balance ... over time, this slowly conditions the dependence and obsession that leads to, well, look at Garuda and what she's done to the once feathery and peaceful ixal! She goes from being nothing to being the Queen of Birds to a race of sylph-like birdmen and then BAM. Lady of the Vortex is throwing entrails everywhere and the naked birds have to build dirigibles just to fly and all they can use them for is bombing the hell out of whatever Garuda tells them to.

Wouldn't it be an interesting sub-plot if a primal entity from the void took an interest in the Woken races? We don't have to summon them. Ever. They'd just try their damndest to tempt us; you could have an entire storyline built around The Warriors of Light trying to stop another group of Woken from making a huge mistake.

[Enkidoh]

The thing is, the beast tribes didn't even know how to summon their Primals until the Paragons instructed them in the technique - the slyphs mention this repeatedly. They even suggest that they themselves had also been instructed in how to summon their Primal by the Paragons (sylph Primal = Ramuh?), and that they considered it to protect themselves against the Garlean invasion, but decided against it due to the corrupting influence the Primals were seeming to have on the other beast tribes (ala, Amal'jaa and Ixal).

And don't forget there is also the revelation that the player character is capable of summoning their own Primal too, as it's why Ifrit gets so standoffish during Lord Errant - he reveals this when he forces your character to feign fealty to him alone and swear against 'the summoning of another' - he almost seems insulted that a mere mortal member of the races of people is also capable of summoning without even requiring the intermediary of a Paragon.

But I'm just flapping my gums here.