Conjecture Question..Any evidence to support/reject this theory concerning Echo?

[Anonymoose]

I'll probably check it out later on Youtube and maybe some transcripts from wiki sites.

I don't often say this, but anyone who wants to try to school me on some of the technicalities - it'd be appreciated! Loremonger's in need, lol.




If only 1.X was as simple as Evangelion.

[Lady]

If only 1.X was as simple as Evangelion.

If you can explain why I saw crayon drawings of the characters in some sort of weird picture montage, I will become your lore gopher for the rest of my life. (Lore gopher = You saying "Go find me this cutscene") :P

[Yrusama]

If you can explain why I saw crayon drawings of the characters in some sort of weird picture montage, I will become your lore gopher for the rest of my life. (Lore gopher = "Go find me this cutscene") :P

This... deserves fanart. I wish I still had it in me to draw.

[Anonymoose]

If you can explain why I saw crayon drawings of the characters in some sort of weird picture montage, I will become your lore gopher for the rest of my life. (Lore gopher = "Go find me this cutscene") :P

OFF-TOPIC DIGRESSION, NOTHING TO SEE HERE

Are we talking about the last episode of Eva? Where the world is like, reduced to a sketch montage? Keep in mind that this is just an interpretation, because the damn thing was so ambiguous that they eventually flat out replaced the episode with a different one, but I think that it was a philosophical journey exoloring whether or not Shinji wants to accept the borders of all individuality collapsing or not, which is what might be happening; all humanity's AT fields collapsing into a single flood of LCL.

"Instrumentality" was the merging of every soul and consciousness into one, a singular, perfect consciousness - and Shinji contemplates the use of individuality - starting with himself existing in "the void" and then realizing that he can't exist alone (similar to Descartes writings on the topic of cogito ergo sum), thus expanding the images to include other people as a point of reference, eventually realizing that because there are so many possibilities and options due to the existence of so many individuals, that this is something to be treasured and thus he rejects the instrumentality altogether and (presumably, because the episode just freaking ends) saves the world from instrumentality. In exchange for this individuality, we get uncertainty, doubt, fear, insecurity, etc., which is what all the voices ask if he is feeling. We exchange abstract perfection for objective and subjective experience and thus save "life."

Again, can't stress this enough - this has all been retconned into oblivion by this point.

[Lady]

We didn't age and didn't perceive time, so as far as we're concerned it doesn't matter. From a physics standpoint, and when determining just how powerful Louisoix is, the two are very different. Did Louisoix really tear open a portal in time/space to deliver us safely 5 years in the future? Or could he have sent us to a zero-dimension temporarily? Given there's such thing as the Void, the latter seems a little more plausible, although I shudder to think that we were saved by the very concept that threatened Bartz's world in FFV.

See thats why it seemed feasible that it could have all just been an echo.. and when the echo ended we were back in the present which was 5 years after the events that happened in 1.X

OFF-TOPIC DIGRESSION, NOTHING TO SEE HERE

starting with himself existing in "the void" and then realizing that he can't exist alone (similar to Descartes writings on the topic of cogito ergo sum), thus expanding the images to include other people as a point of reference, eventually realizing that because there are so many possibilities and options due to the existence of so many individuals, that this is something to be treasured and thus he rejects the instrumentality altogether

and that actually explains it... so what would you like me to research for you, sir? ._.

[Anonymoose]

and that actually explains it... so what would you like me to research for you, sir? ._.

LOL. Feel free to put yourself on "at ease" status for now. I joined GamerEscape before I even started the game, so I saved literally everything (EVERYTHING) I came across. I saved more than I had the opportunity to wiki-fy before the game decided it was no longer applicable - and I'm still trying to slowly convert it into a saved lore compendium.

Right now, as I've said, I'm stuck on Limsa issues - then I move onto punching up Catapult's articles with images / missed dialogue (assuming there is any) because he has outpaced me entirely - then I can do Ul'dah and crank out the main story line... then it's onto the GC storyline, then going back to clean up classes, jobs, sidequests, and regular old NPC small-talk.

[Catapult]

then I move onto punching up Catapult's articles with images / missed dialogue (assuming there is any) because he has outpaced me entirely

Lol. I dumped and formatted my text for those quests before Loremonger even came into existance, so I had a bit of a head start. Not to mention that the Gridanian plot is a little bit less brain-frying.

That being said, my breakdowns contradict Jacien's assertions about the echo on some points. I'll try and explain my position as best as I can.

This is a Final Fantasy game, one of the most powerful brands of JRPG. A common trend in these stories is that the lead character is designed with the purpose of breaking the limits society places upon them. XIII spoilers...

To quote Lightning when she is told she overreaches herself by Orphen:
"We make the impossible possible."

As Moose has pointed out, the limitations of the echo are given to us by Minfillia. It is her assertion alone that we cannot unwrite what is written. Meanwhile, Minfilia's skill is not very remarkable - she does not have the gift of tongues. There is another person in the waking sands who conversely has only the gift of tongues (to a very high level of mastery) but cannot echo-jump.
But you are the main character in this story. It stands to reason that you are unique and will break things, including your foes, expectations and perceived rules.

The opening sequence already does this, notably for the Gridanian one. Minfilia has asserted that the echo allows us to breach the wall of a person's soul. Maybe that is her limitation and the limitation of most. But the CG Midlander does it off a leve plate and in the Gridanian opening you do it in the presence of no one.

You've even gone so far as to bring things back with you. The treant vine, baloon fish and velodyna cosmos are things you shouldn't have had if you were merely influencing someone's memory.

And if you were only affecting someone's memory, how does that affect someone else's memory? Why would Thancred, Yda or Y'shtola have any reason to recognise you come Futures Perfect or the Grand Company sequences?

It is clear to me that we are, by design, breaking the perceived rules with our own unique strain of the echo and doing more than just observing history through someone's memory. Yes, I believe we are subtly changing history in a way that is beyond the comprehension of those that have come before us.

Unfortunately, when Minifilia tells us the "rules", this creates psychological limits on what we could have naïvely achieved if we didn't know what our limits were.