Is FFXIV ARR going to use WOW64 again?

[Laraul]

WOW64 is not an emulated environment. It's an environment that runs both 32bit and 64bit processes. WOW64's chief purpose is to keep 32bit programs and 64bit programs independent of each other so an installer doesn't overwrite 32bit binaries with 64bit ones and vice versa. You can't have mixed binaries containing both 32bit and 64bit instructions.

[TonyUK]

WOW64 is not an emulated environment. It's an environment that runs both 32bit and 64bit processes. WOW64's chief purpose is to keep 32bit programs and 64bit programs independent of each other so an installer doesn't overwrite 32bit binaries with 64bit ones and vice versa. You can't have mixed binaries containing both 32bit and 64bit instructions.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...(v=vs.85).aspx

I quote from the microsoft page

"WOW64 is the x86 emulator that allows 32-bit Windows-based applications to run seamlessly on 64-bit Windows. WOW64 is provided with the operating system and does not have to be explicitly enabled. For more information, see WOW64 Implementation Details.

The system isolates 32-bit applications from 64-bit applications, which includes preventing file and registry collisions. Console, GUI, and service applications are supported. The system provides interoperability across the 32/64 boundary for scenarios such as cut and paste and COM. However, 32-bit processes cannot load 64-bit DLLs for execution, and 64-bit processes cannot load 32-bit DLLs for execution. This restriction does not apply to DLLs loaded as data files or image resource files; for more information, see LoadLibraryEx.

A 32-bit application can detect whether it is running under WOW64 by calling the IsWow64Process function. The application can obtain additional information about the processor by using the GetNativeSystemInfo function.

Note that 64-bit Windows does not support running 16-bit Windows-based applications. The primary reason is that handles have 32 significant bits on 64-bit Windows. Therefore, handles cannot be truncated and passed to 16-bit applications without loss of data. Attempts to launch 16-bit applications fail with the following error: ERROR_BAD_EXE_FORMAT."

That article clearly states it is an Emulator.

[Junpei]

Also many games ship with x86 and x64 DLLs and provide separate executables, my earliest memory of this is the original Crysis, which is now quite old.

[Soukyuu]

Where are you from, Soukyuu?
I can attest that there are places where Win XP is still common in some places where amazon doesn't reaches... (hilariously in the place where the real Amazon is)

the .de should have been obvious, Skies :3
The only reason I quoted Amazon is because they're usually reasonable with their prices. If some shops charge more for the 64-bit version, they're merely trying to get more money by suggesting 64-bit is better cause it's 2x32-bit :P

People using winXP on modern hardware don't get the most out of it, since the scheduler of winXP only really knows how to schedule for 2 cores. Not to mention you don't get to use all of the 4GB+ you installed. You wouldn't believe how many times I heard people brag about their octacore 24GB RAM systems running... winXP.

That article clearly states it is an Emulator.

Yes. The difference is, that this kind of emulation does NOT negatively impact performance, as some people believe. WOW64 emulates registry and memory access, but the underlying hardware architecture is the same (x86 with 64-bit extensions). Emulating an architecture (PS1, PS2) is what really taxes the resources. Since it's not the case here, there is no performance loss.

A 64-bit exe would have access to more memory, but other than that, I don't really see a benefit.

[kazaran]

The engine doesn't require it nor is it really needed. Part of it is also cross compatibility of data checks. Be nice for some 64bit features, and better direct X 11 abilities, but that may come later. Since the PS3 version is using modified opengl sourcing, they need to balance it so data is effective on server side triggers.

[VoltaAsura]

Even for a tech enthusiast like me, this thread is getting too complicated and technical for most. It's hurting my face. Whether WOW64 mode is an emulated environment that may potentially decrease performance/use more resources compared to a native 64 bit programs is and should be left on another forum, not one for XIV. Especially since it seems different people are having different understandings of what this technology is and does. SO please take this to a tech forum to sort these things out. I can assure better and more technical results there.

I think ultimatly the OP's question should be:
"Do you think that ARR will have both a 32bit and 64bit client, or will it only be 32bit?"

[Reika]

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...(v=vs.85).aspx

I quote from the microsoft page

"WOW64 is the x86 emulator that allows 32-bit Windows-based applications to run seamlessly on 64-bit Windows. WOW64 is provided with the operating system and does not have to be explicitly enabled. For more information, see WOW64 Implementation Details.

The system isolates 32-bit applications from 64-bit applications, which includes preventing file and registry collisions. Console, GUI, and service applications are supported. The system provides interoperability across the 32/64 boundary for scenarios such as cut and paste and COM. However, 32-bit processes cannot load 64-bit DLLs for execution, and 64-bit processes cannot load 32-bit DLLs for execution. This restriction does not apply to DLLs loaded as data files or image resource files; for more information, see LoadLibraryEx.

A 32-bit application can detect whether it is running under WOW64 by calling the IsWow64Process function. The application can obtain additional information about the processor by using the GetNativeSystemInfo function.

Note that 64-bit Windows does not support running 16-bit Windows-based applications. The primary reason is that handles have 32 significant bits on 64-bit Windows. Therefore, handles cannot be truncated and passed to 16-bit applications without loss of data. Attempts to launch 16-bit applications fail with the following error: ERROR_BAD_EXE_FORMAT."

That article clearly states it is an Emulator.

Sounds like simply making a swap-able 32 and 64 bit executable is out of the question. They would have to have 64 bit almost everything in order to be non-emulated.

Even for a tech enthusiast like me, this thread is getting too complicated and technical for most. It's hurting my face. Whether WOW64 mode is an emulated environment that may potentially decrease performance/use more resources compared to a native 64 bit programs is and should be left on another forum, not one for XIV. Especially since it seems different people are having different understandings of what this technology is and does. SO please take this to a tech forum to sort these things out. I can assure better and more technical results there.

I think ultimatly the OP's question should be:
"Do you think that ARR will have both a 32bit and 64bit client, or will it only be 32bit?"

I think its fine for XIV forums, since we are talking about XIV client here... Its good info nonetheless, no reason to bar it.

and I believe they'll at the most have just 32 bit ready and we will have to rely on the emulation, but would be nice if they had a 64 bit update for it all down the line.

[Alhanelem]

The simple fact is WoW64 doesn't meaningfully decrease 32 bit application performance. I've never seen a side by side comparison on identical hardware that proved otherwise.

[Eekiki]

The simple fact is WoW64 doesn't meaningfully decrease 32 bit application performance. I've never seen a side by side comparison on identical hardware that proved otherwise.

This is true. However, if FFXIV is going to support modding as SE has claimed it eventually will, the modding community will be limited in what they're able to do with the limited amount of address space unless SE makes a true 64 bit client.

And on general principle, it's 20-friggin'-13. If someone isn't using a 64-bit OS at this point, they shouldn't be computering.

[Delsus]

This is true. However, if FFXIV is going to support modding as SE has claimed it eventually will, the modding community will be limited in what they're able to do with the limited amount of address space unless SE makes a true 64 bit client.

And on general principle, it's 20-friggin'-13. If someone isn't using a 64-bit OS at this point, they shouldn't be computering.

So by your laws, 34.67% of the world then? Not to menton it was only July 2012 that Windows 7 overtook XP as the most used OS. http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-mar....aspx?qprid=11