Shaders?

[Gramul]

It's not a matter of caring about something, it seems just like the "grass" issue to me, where people are prematurely complaining about something that clearly isn't ready yet. There's a good possibility that certain graphical features and such will be disabled initially.

But to be fair, none of us have any idea what will or won't be changed or improved.

It's probably better to play it safe and let them know the issues we have with it now instead of after the game is out, even if they already plan on changing it; because we really don't know their specific plans regarding it.

[Radacci]

A decent metal shader shouldn't be taxing on the system at all.
That's one thing that's been bothering me about ARR is how everything looks matte. Like its all made out of the same soft texture.

I would be really surprised if they kept it like this. But what would really impress me would be some realtime subsurface scattering.

Lols, Subsurface Scattering would certainly be awesome, but maybe next decade
That stuff gonna revolutionize gaming graphics.

[Shougun]

i think it's just higher quality textures in general, otherwise it's called ambient occlusion ^^

"In computer graphics, ambient occlusion attempts to approximate the way light radiates in real life, especially off what are normally considered non-reflective surfaces.
Unlike local methods like Phong shading, ambient occlusion is a global method, meaning the illumination at each point is a function of other geometry in the scene. However, it is a very crude approximation to full global illumination. The soft appearance achieved by ambient occlusion alone is similar to the way an object appears on an overcast day."

I dont think what happened in that alpha -> beta video for 1.0 was ambient occlusion beacuse the shadows were built into the texture without regards to nearby 3d objects. Also 1.0's ambient occlusion was a massive memory leak lol but I do believe Yoshida said that they'd get it properly working in ARR so

It's not a matter of caring about something, it seems just like the "grass" issue to me, where people are prematurely complaining about something that clearly isn't ready yet. There's a good possibility that certain graphical features and such will be disabled initially.

There is a deep seeded issue with this. If people honestly believe this then they should never take part in -any- feedback of the game (at least until beta, and even then I imagine some people that think like this will say "its just beta, stop giving feedback about this"- not saying you would say that.. just I know some will say it to what they dont care for). Why comment on the combat system when it can change, why comment on the job system when it can change, why comment on the economy when it can change, why comment on the graphics when it can change, why comment on the music when it can change, why comment on any of the game content when it can change, why comment at all. (Through beta, through release and on all faculties are constantly taking edits, there may be a premium time to make suggestions but there is never a "you may not speak" time as everything is always able to evolve and is/can be in the air (unless you can read Yoshida's mind), or unless you count NDA.. then you really cant speak :P)

This logic is flawed for a forum designed for feedback and suggestions (funny side note, they made a bunch of sub forums for each topic but general discussion gets the most hits so its really the best place to discuss things lol).

I don't think its impossible that they have improvements, for things like grass already prepared - but since we don't know about it its pretty much not there and if we are not allowed to make those kind of comments.. then we fall back into what I said above - where as everything is in change nothing can be talked about - if we know a solution is coming then that is a different story.

Sure some people don't care for certain issues or like to mock others for how little of an issue it is to them - but to blame it on "its probably going to change" means that NO things should be talked about.

Instead if someone isn't suggestion something that will destroy your game, and you really don't care about it- then just leave it alone and let the Devs to decide.

Its not like I in the grass thread said ARR will die if they don't listen to me, or that I said it needs to happen this second (many times in that thread I suggested it be done after release or if someone has free time), or that I also said that if it changes during beta or if Yoshida mentions it I wont bother making it a point. People just like to forum police and often the logic is irrational.

My other favorite reasoning is that people have some understanding of Yoshida's exact available resources and no one can ask anything because they need to carefully plan Yoshida's resource expenditure out for him.

[Laraul]

All these "graphical improvement" discussion aren't about graphics but vague requests for improved appearances built on the belief that adding more "graphic technologies" will magically grant their desires. The problem is aesthetics is a personal preference that varies between individuals. What people never seem to notice is how quick new "graphical improvements" rapidly become dull after the 4th time seen, which prompts for more requests to improve the visuals.

[Shougun]

All these "graphical improvement" discussion aren't about graphics but vague requests for improved appearances built on the belief that adding more "graphic technologies" will magically grant their desires. The problem is aesthetics is a personal preference that varies between individuals. What people never seem to notice is how quick new "graphical improvements" rapidly become dull after the 4th time seen, which prompts for more requests to improve the visuals.

. . . There is nothing vague about shaders. The metal shader is obvious and it looks good (imo). That and if you make a great metal shader - there is not much you can do to improve on it. Make it more.. metally?

(Also I cant speak for others but beautiful game != rapidly dull. I loaded my skyrim with some graphic mods, I drool everywhere I go - I wander around more then I do anything else and I freaking love it.. In fact I have to set goals before I start playing else I'll just wander the map in a dream state)

[Radacci]

All these "graphical improvement" discussion aren't about graphics but vague requests for improved appearances built on the belief that adding more "graphic technologies" will magically grant their desires. The problem is aesthetics is a personal preference that varies between individuals. What people never seem to notice is how quick new "graphical improvements" rapidly become dull after the 4th time seen, which prompts for more requests to improve the visuals.

If it's done in a good way to begin with, it will still look good 10 years from now; even if there's stuff that looks better then.
Look at journey for example, taking the art style it uses, i don't see how it can really improve much more, and i don't see how it would quickly become dull.

Anyways i know what you mean, and i agree; But i think there should be a minimal threshold; and if you manage that, it will last very long. And honestly, FF games have always tried to keep a high standard when it comes to graphics. I don't see why players, or SE themselves would sell themselves short on the subject. Yoshi is pointing out himself he wants to meet certain standards, so why shouldn't we suggest certain standards? i don't think anyone has made any unrealistic suggestions on the subject.
We shouldn't stop making suggestions, just because some people that don't have any standards, think it's fine as it is. ARR was made because 1.0 didn't meet a lot of peoples standards; so it would be to trip on the finish line, if you disregarded certain standards...just because some think it's fine as it is.

[Shioban]

Looking at the screenshots that have recently been released I was wondering what happened to the shaders that were applied to things like metal armor, hair, and leather?

Are they just not on? Not in the client yet? Or are they permanently gone? ;___;

Let's hope! ^^

These things do take time, but it is nice to /poke to see if we can get a response.
It is something to be concern about but i'm sure Yoshi and his team won't leave them out.

[Shioban]

. . . There is nothing vague about shaders. The metal shader is obvious and it looks good (imo). That and if you make a great metal shader - there is not much you can do to improve on it. Make it more.. metally?

(Also I cant speak for others but beautiful game != rapidly dull. I loaded my skyrim with some graphic mods, I drool everywhere I go - I wander around more then I do anything else and I freaking love it.. In fact I have to set goals before I start playing else I'll just wander the map in a dream state)

I'm not sure if i'm reading this post right, but if you're saying;

"They won't need to change the shaders"

They answer is; they will. Most likely just converted or adjusted but they will indefinably be using new shaders for FFXIV:ARR's various charachter/static models and that in itself is a HEFTY task.

But yet again I may have mis-read the post. We'll see

But as I said in my last post: "It is something to be concern about but i'm sure Yoshi and his team won't leave them out."

[Shougun]

I'm not sure if i'm reading this post right, but if you're saying

"They won't need to change the shaders"

They answer is; they will. Most likely just converted or adjusted but they will indefinably be using new shaders for FFXIV:ARR's various charachter/static models and that in itself is a HEFTY task.

But yet again I may have mis-read the post. We'll see

Oh I said if you make the metal shader well enough the first time you dont need to update it later lol - because the person I was quoting was mentioning the cyclic traits of increasing graphics. If you increase something people will expect more later, and you will always be increasing the graphics (which is true if you look at the graphics of games - every cycle gets better. But I'd hardly call reaching forward a bad thing).

Anyway, I said it as this is one of those things you do once and then you really dont need to look back at, at least for a long time. "What are you going to do, make it more metaly? - You already achieved the effect"

[Shioban]

Oh I said if you make the metal shader well enough the first time you dont need to update it later lol - because the person I was quoting was mentioning the cyclic traits of increasing graphics. If you increase something people will expect more later, and you will always be increasing the graphics (which is true if you look at the graphics of games - every cycle gets better. But I'd hardly call reaching forward a bad thing).

Anyway, I said it as this is one of those things you do once and then you really dont need to look back at, at least for a long time. "What are you going to do, make it more metaly? - You already achieved the effect"

Yup, in this case its not a matter of "remaking" its more converting and adjusting, which is where the time-consumption comes in.
And that's on top of all the new assets. Must be a mad-house at times.