Truely separating class from job - an overhaul (again).

[Reika]

Even though they did an overhaul to all classes in order to create jobs, I believe much of the overhaul was overdone and uneccisary. Classes only needed to be tuned and balanced to suit their roles, while the jobs would be completely different from the classes and suit their own roles. After their overhaul, classes pretty much became useless once you had the job for it. Their idea of classes being for solo died swiftly as people including me found that the job was much much better for soloing than the class.

I believe another overhaul is needed to achieve true separation of class and job. One of the major flaws is that a job learns only a measly 5 extra skills/spells which was suspost to define it. It doesn't do the trick, at all. All it does is change the class into an advanced class. The job can still use everything the class could, with only less cross class skills - which didn't effect the jobs ability to still do what the class could do + more.

The Idea of my overhaul is to add onto the spells/skills learned through the job quests as level up skills, and start the jobs out at level 20 instead of 30. I will use the THM for the first example. (I dont kn[

THMs is mostly reverted back to before the class overhaul (pre-elemental spells). Zam thankfully still has a list of their old skills: http://www.zam.com/wiki/Thaumaturge_%28FFXIV%29 Some modifications to it are to be made (to get rid of some of II's and III's, add more traits, and rebalance to fit its lore and not be OP as it use to be)

• lvl1 : Banish and Scourge - scales potency and increases MP costs with level (as with all spells)
• lvl4 : Sacrifice single target (Slightly higher MP cost with HP cost for the extra regen effect)
• lvl6 : Trait - increase Aattack Macc
• lvl8 : Poison
• lvl10: Resurrect
• lvl12: Trait - increase Enfeeble Macc
• lvl14: Slow
• lvl16: Bio and Dia
• lvl18: Trait - Increase duration of poison
• lvl20: Attribute Drains

None of these has to be exactly as listed, but would be a start. At lvl 20 player will be able to unlock the BLM job to attatch to thm. This time, the BLM will have spells, abilities and traits avaliable at level up, the ones that were quested for can remain quested for.


BLM at 20 loses the ability to use the attribute drains, sacrifice, resurrect, scourge/banish and gains its first spell Fire:

• lvl20: Fire and Fira (fira is the aoe version)
• lvl21: Blizard and Blizara
• lvl22: Thunder and thundara(potencies equal! and all unusable as thm)
• lvl24: Trait - increase Attack Mpotency (BLM only)
• lvl26: Ability - Increase Attack M Crit rate until getting a critical
• lvl28: Sleep
• lvl30: Trait increase Att M Crit rate

Etc Etc


Meanwhile THM will be learing these:

• lvl22 Sacriga (or sacrifice II)
• lvl24 Trait - Decrease HP cost of sacrifice (not II)
• lvl26 Banishga and Scourga (Aoe versions)
• lvl28 Gravity
• lvl30 Drain

So on and on. This way, class and job get truely separated and dont become useless in the name of jobs, and creates 8 more playstyle choices for a total of 16.

And I know, it would be a big overhaul. But SE is perfectly capable of big overhauls, and I think this will be for the best. And yes, it will take 'time' lol. I would rather they take the time to make this system work rather than handing us another steaming pile of crap where they might as well delete classes.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

boring topic is boring. Also, this "overhaul", as you know, effectively double the number of classes. While it seems a good thing, they'll also double the time testing new content before releasing, and for what ?

[Reika]

boring topic is boring. Also, this "overhaul", as you know, effectively double the number of classes. While it seems a good thing, they'll also double the time testing new content before releasing, and for what ?

For what is obvious, for classes to not be useless. I thought I made that clear.

[Zenaku]

For what is obvious, for classes to not be useless. I thought I made that clear.

I don't understand the logic here the job is the class the class is the job so i don't see the point of separating the class. If i remember right the point of the class is for solo players and the job system is for partying.

So yes class is pretty much useless for full party base stuff but not for soloing / low manning so i don't see the point and they never going to do it. You said to someone else on here that the system is not fine will if it was not then i don't think SE would keep using it.

We playing there game not our game if you dislike this system then go play a wow-clone where you have to do a tree system. I don't see the issue here at all the job is the class the class is the job.

One is for soloing and the other is for partying so what the big deal? you just adding a dam stone to your class that give you 5 more spell big deal overall it still a class using the same dam spell you use you just now limit to only using 3 class vs the old system where it was use them all.

[Xeia]

You said to someone else on here that the system is not fine will if it was not then i don't think SE would keep using it.

We playing there game not our game if you dislike this system then go play a wow-clone where you have to do a tree system.

God, I'm so sick of this. Whether I agree with the OP or not is irrelevant at this point.

Yes, SE will continue to use a bad system (perhaps without even KNOWING it's bad), if none of their players voice any objection to it. Reika did not throw a fit. She did not swear at the dev team. She has not demanded changes and threatened to quit over it. She has stated her opinion in an easy-to-follow manner, complete with examples, in a place where other players can see it and either agree with it, tweak it, or explain why they don't like it. This is exactly the type of feedback that makes a game. Don't tell her to go play another game because you don't like her opinion. Try instead posting something in favor of the current system that isn't "it's what we have, so it must be the absolute best way it possibly can be."

I'd much rather the players who can't write a respectful post leave XIV for WoW than those who post useful feedback for the devs.

[Zenaku]

Whether I agree with the OP or not, can't really ignore this.

Yes, SE will continue to use a system, regardless of how awful (without even KNOWING it's awful), if none of their players voice any objection to it. Reika did not throw a fit. She did not swear at the dev team. She has not demanded changes and threatened to quit over it. She has stated her opinion in an easy-to-follow manner, complete with examples, in a place where other players can see it and either agree with it, tweak it, or explain why they don't like it. This is exactly the type of feedback that makes a game. Try instead posting something in favor of the current system that isn't "it's what we have, so it must be the absolute best way it possibly can be."

I'd much rather the players who can't write a respectful post leave XIV for WoW than those who post useful feedback for the devs.

The problem is the person want to cut the class from the job when it's not even needed. A job would be noting without the class it just be 5 spells and AF and Relic weps. You have pretty end up with clones of the class two of everything that does not sound like a great idea.

Yoshi-p said the point of class is for people who want to solo and low man stuff. With Class you can use any spell and a lancer can back up heal without issue. The job was for party and making the class a lock role that what everyone was asking for 1year ago oh everyone can be anything we want jobs like FFXI where a white mage is the main healer and PLD is a tank. So yoshi-p made the job system and it working out just fine i don't see any issue with it.

I wish they just took off the class system all together so people wont make topic like this. Because it seem people are still confuse what is a class and what is a job.

[Dzian]

So yes class is pretty much useless for full party base stuff but not for soloing / low manning.

Just to be brief. Classes were also "pretty much useless" for soloing / low man. Thats a fairly accurate reason behind why tbey were almost never used in 1.0. There are dozens of examples of why jobs solod/lowmand better than classes in 1.0
thats why this subject keeps coming up.

If ARR sees the same trends between class/job that 1.0 did then it'll still be a huge problem and classes will still never be used.

The problem is the person want to cut the class from the job when it's not even needed. A job would be noting without the class it just be 5 spells and AF and Relic weps. You have pretty end up with clones of the class two of everything that does not sound like a great idea.

Many would say that is exactly what the problem is. A class and its job are pretty much identical. for the most part a job can do everything its respective class can do and more.

Sure a warrior can't cure or stoneskin or invigorate. but throughout 1.0 the simple fact was it just didnt need to. what it lost in defense it more than made up for in offence. and every job was pretty much the same

[yukikaze_yanagi]

i would say let talk arr before say if classes suck or not :||

[Reika]

I don't believe in waiting to see if its broken or not. People are still making these threads 'in case' they didn't think of the ideas yet. They could very well have the same bad idea system they brought about with the first class reform in order to introduce jobs.