ARR and Mac

[Laume]

I got lost as soon as I got to the 2nd sentence. I daresay your intentions were genuine but sorry I can't read it :/

Most people in here have been on the view that they all have pro's and con's.. There just seem to be a lot of people in here who have an opinion about Apple even without using any of their products.

Each brand has a place in the market. It may not be your market, but doesn't mean it's "wrong" or "bad".

No worries. Just as long as people aren't doing the whole "Apple sucks! You suck for liking it!" argument anymore. Especially the linux people though. I mean, I know we often have to clamor and fight to exist/get drivers from manufacturers, but there's a difference between fighting to exist and attacking your opponent. Neither Linus Torvald nor Richard Stallman wanted this type of user base because they knew that this will turn the open source/free software community into what it hates most.

You got my intention though and that's good enough. ^^b

[Altena]

No worries. Just as long as people aren't doing the whole "Apple sucks! You suck for liking it!" argument anymore. Especially the linux people though. I mean, I know we often have to clamor and fight to exist/get drivers from manufacturers, but there's a difference between fighting to exist and attacking your opponent. Neither Linus Torvald nor Richard Stallman wanted this type of user base because they knew that this will turn the open source/free software community into what it hates most.

You got my intention though and that's good enough. ^^b

Just do a quick edit and throw a few line breaks in there and it will become a lot more readable even if you aren't doing proper paragraphs, and I think more people will read your point.

And yes, I hate it when people act very ignorant on the Apple subject.. It's like me saying crappy WoW is, even though I have never played a minute of it in my life.

[Carzilla]

I am torn between buying the latest 27' iMac vs the 15.4' Macbook pro. I already have the previous generation 27' iMac so if I buy the Macbook Pro, can I use the 27' iMac as my monitor?

Can anyone give me some advice? As the new generation macs don't come with a dvd drive, anyone knows how to install windows on it?

Do you know What you can build with that money ?! Dont waste your time with hi spec apple cuz your gonna have to run Win on a virtual machine @ half the ram

DO NOT BUY A MAC

buy 2 evga 690s a new mobo & cpu @ half the cost and STILL have money left over

[Laume]

Just do a quick edit and throw a few line breaks in there and it will become a lot more readable even if you aren't doing proper paragraphs, and I think more people will read your point.

And yes, I hate it when people act very ignorant on the Apple subject.. It's like me saying crappy WoW is, even though I have never played a minute of it in my life.

Yeah, in the heat of the moment, I kind of forgot about that. Done. Thanks for the tip. ^^b
And you're too late Carzilla, he's just going to bootcamp it.

[Alhanelem]

The primary argument against macs- price- is reasonable. It's not a matter of ignorance. Apple charges a massive premium for the same hardware (literally the same hardware) as in a Windows PC. I have little against Mac OSX itself, but I will never buy a Mac because to me, it's just an overpriced PC with a shiny casing and a different operating system.

[Laume]

The primary argument against macs- price- is reasonable. It's not a matter of ignorance. Apple charges a massive premium for the same hardware (literally the same hardware) as in a Windows PC. I have little against Mac OSX itself, but I will never buy a Mac because to me, it's just an overpriced PC with a shiny casing and a different operating system.

I don't think Altena is talking about that particular argument. We can all agree that, if we price it just by hardware costs, a mac costs significantly more than a PC. There's been a few arguments that said that a)bootcamp is just a bad virtual machine (which isn't true.). b) apple does some sneaky things in updates (which is true, but not any more so than windows.). c) an argument that sounded like all macs are cheaply designed. (which wasn't the argument at all).

I can understand that stance on not buying macs. My macbook was bought second hand. I just needed something small and apple to toy with.

But let's face facts. We're not apple's target audience. Neither you or I would ever buy a prada bag or eddie bauer SUV's. Meteor survivor t-shirts, however...

[Zehira]

I am a MBP owner hoping to see an answer from SE for the Mac version in the future.

I can understand why BOOTCAMP isn't that good and Windows 7 had to take 2GB out of my RAM but ARR is still playable. I don't see why they are against OS X since it's based on UNIX like many features you see from Linux. If SE is making the game for the PS3 with OpenGL then it would not be that much problem for a established game company to port it to OS X and Linux.

[Laume]

I don't see why they are against OS X since it's based on UNIX like many features you see from Linux.

Oh, I can answer that one. It's because it's freebsd. Compared to the largest linux distro (ubuntu, which is a shoot off of debian) a lot of the commands that are in freebsd are either old or don't have the same features as other "newer" linux distros. My pet peeve is that tcpdump on my mac and on my debian box have different options and different flags. Another is that linux comes open access to you. Nothing is closed sourced. Nothing is hidden, which, admittedly, isn't true with macs. As I mentioned before, I don't get on a computer without at least 1 or 2 shell sessions open so I'm much more a linux person. But with that said, I take my macbook to school when I need a good compromise between commercial supported software and *nix tools.

If SE is making the game for the PS3 with OpenGL then it would not be that much problem for a established game company to port it to OS X and Linux.

Not that I've looked into it extensively, but doesn't FFXIV use a lot of directx's stuff? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. (not that I wouldn't love to play this on a debian machine.)

[Zehira]

Not that I've looked into it extensively, but doesn't FFXIV use a lot of directx's stuff? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. (not that I wouldn't love to play this on a debian machine.)

DirectX is a collection of APIs for handling tasks, especially game programming and video on Microsoft platforms. It's not possible to port the game to other platforms if they picked DirectX. In my opinion, if SE sticks with OpenGL then it would be easier to port to other platforms including Windows versions. I think it's a stupid move when they not choice OpenGL over DirectX since they can't port it to the Xbox 360 due to the policy agreement made by Microsoft. I mean why the hell does DirectX install every time I buy a game off Steam? Thanks to Valve, they opened Steam to OS X and Linux because they believe that OpenGL is more faster than DirectX. I downloaded some games on my MBP I bought from Windows do not require any software driver to play a game.

Now, like I said if they are making the game for the PS3 with OpenGL (correct me if I am wrong because that system does support OpenGL.) They could build a launcher for Mac machines with Windows-based graphics and texture data packages. Like how Blizzard made WoW for Windows with DirectX and for Mac with OpenGL. Honestly, ARR don't use a lot of DirectX stuff, they don't look like what Halo can do though. I think it's still using DX9.

It would be smart for SE to look into that and answer us if they will do it or not.

[Millerna]

I am a MBP owner hoping to see an answer from SE for the Mac version in the future.

I can understand why BOOTCAMP isn't that good and Windows 7 had to take 2GB out of my RAM but ARR is still playable. I don't see why they are against OS X since it's based on UNIX like many features you see from Linux. If SE is making the game for the PS3 with OpenGL then it would not be that much problem for a established game company to port it to OS X and Linux.

There's nothing wrong with Bootcamp, and it doesn't do anything to decrease performance in Windows. Basically, nor does it affect RAM used. All it does is emulate a BIOS so that Windows can install/boot.

As for not porting to OSX and/or Linux, it's quite simple, the potential market is too small for what it would cost to make a decent/native port. Many of the games available on OSX are Cider ports, and Cider affects performance quite a bit. The OSX clients of WAR and SWtOR for example are Cider ports, and their OSX performance is far below their Windows performance on the exact same hardware.

ARR on Windows most likely uses DX10, and they're planning on adding DX11 features after release (this has been mentioned in interviews and/or YoshiP's letters)

ARR on PS3 uses Sony's custom OpenGL version (PSGL, based on OpenGL ES 1.0), and thus isn't directly compatible with an OpenGL version in OSX/Linux (or Windows for that matter) ..

The only easy/cost-effective port (for OSX at least) would be a Cider port, but then there'd be much complaining about how performance is inferior to the Windows version.