ARR and Mac

[Klefth]

I could say the same about putting an automobile together (except you have to do some wielding). It's a matter of perspective.

...You're seriously comparing building a PC to building a car. Wow...

Best Buy's "Geek Squad" charges $300 for replacing parts. Labor isn't cheep. If you've ever had a car serviced you'd know this.

Your comparison is seriously ridiculous, as is the price for that service. Who the hell would charge $300 for "replacing parts"? I mean, that's about as much as the most pricy parts in a PC cost (well, depending on your system, that is). Unless the part you were replacing was a burned out CPU or GPU (and higher end ones for that price), $300 is an absolutely absurd price.

[Zenaku]

...You're seriously comparing building a PC to building a car. Wow...

Your comparison is seriously ridiculous, as is the price for that service. Who the hell would charge $300 for "replacing parts"? I mean, that's about as much as the most pricy parts in a PC cost (well, depending on your system, that is). Unless the part you were replacing was a burned out CPU or GPU (and higher end ones for that price), $300 is an absolutely absurd price.

Geek squad does charge some mess up price to just replace something. Just to see what wrong with your computer it easy 70+$ but that not the point. Who in the hell would pay 100+ for some guy to replace a part when you can do it yourself in 30m?

I myself 3days ago open my computer and put new thermal paste on my cpu. In most case that is the hardest part for a normal person to do once you look it up on youtube and do it a few time you be set.

[Altena]

What are you talking about you know that anyone with half a brain can put a computer together right?

While I do agree that $300 labour to plug in a GPU from whatever computer store is massively overpriced, your statement above is extremely false.

My mother is a very intelligent woman yet wouldn't know where to plug in a stick of RAM or how to install a hard drive. There are a huge amount of intelligent people that don't know how the components of a computer go together.

I build two computer took me less then 1hour. But if i'm building a 4.000$ computer with water cooling and such which would be the same price as a upgrade imac it would take me 3 hours tops. To make sure the water cooling that is working making sure i put all the cables right and making sure all 4 video cards are working.

$4000 for an iMac? Lolwhat? I got my iMac 4 years ago for $2600 AUD, which was a top of the line iMac in its day. Where are you getting this figure? Because you are getting ripped off if you were quoted $4000.

You do have to also take into consideration that to buy an equivalent display, your options are quite limited and expensive.

If you have the display, the knowledge, and the patience to build a Hackintosh, install both Windows & Mac OS, sure you can build a computer using PC components for a cheaper price, however for the general population that is not an option.

I'm a IT guy and labor would cost me noting becuase i be the one doing the labor. Did you not know people with half a brain can look up youtube videos and learn how to put a computer together?

Once again, my mother wouldn't know where to begin.

the only hard part would be putting in a CPU which you have to make sure you put it right which is not even hard. The arrow on the cpu and the mobo tell you how to put it then putting the heatsink is simple. If you putting a water cooling you have to put a back plate which take only a few secs.

What is hard for you, may be extremely difficult for the worlds greatest cyclist, or swimmer, or body builder or *insert non IT profession here*. Being handy with computers is not easy for some people, even very intelligent people.

if i had 4k i would buy all the parts i said in my other post the shipping would not even be that much if i waste my time looking for good deals. it would take me 1-3hours to build a 4.000$ computer with water cooling .

I believe your timing is insanely underexaggerated. To find 8-10 different components, price them all up, find the best deals, drive to each store or wait for online delivery, you are pushing on days.

If I wanted to buy a new apple computer, I would drive to my local Apple store, spend 30 mins with a sales rep to tell me what I do or don't need for my circumstance, hand over my credit card and walk out with a computer. I would then plug a power cable in, put the batteries in my keyboard and mouse, then be able to turn the computer on.

People pay money for this premium, and for people that don't know how to install a RAM stick, it is certainly the easiest option. You can't argue with convenience. People pay for it.

[Zenaku]

While I do agree that $300 labour to plug in a GPU from whatever computer store is massively overpriced, your statement above is extremely false.

My mother is a very intelligent woman yet wouldn't know where to plug in a stick of RAM or how to install a hard drive. There are a huge amount of intelligent people that don't know how the components of a computer go together.



$4000 for an iMac? Lolwhat? I got my iMac 4 years ago for $2600 AUD, which was a top of the line iMac in its day. Where are you getting this figure? Because you are getting ripped off if you were quoted $4000.

You do have to also take into consideration that to buy an equivalent display, your options are quite limited and expensive.

If you have the display, the knowledge, and the patience to build a Hackintosh, install both Windows & Mac OS, sure you can build a computer using PC components for a cheaper price, however for the general population that is not an option.





Once again, my mother wouldn't know where to begin.



What is hard for you, may be extremely difficult for the worlds greatest cyclist, or swimmer, or body builder or *insert non IT profession here*. Being handy with computers is not easy for some people, even very intelligent people.



I believe your timing is insanely underexaggerated. To find 8-10 different components, price them all up, find the best deals, drive to each store or wait for online delivery, you are pushing on days.

If I wanted to buy a new apple computer, I would drive to my local Apple store, spend 30 mins with a sales rep to tell me what I do or don't need for my circumstance, hand over my credit card and walk out with a computer. I would then plug a power cable in, put the batteries in my keyboard and mouse, then be able to turn the computer on.

People pay money for this premium, and for people that don't know how to install a RAM stick, it is certainly the easiest option. You can't argue with convenience. People pay for it.

Go to http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...ac/family/imac and then click on the 27-inch: 3.2GHz then put all the best upgrade for parts not the keyboard and such. It would come down to 3,849.00 or higher so yes that right from the apple store so i don't know what you talking about. Also things in AU is very overprice my friend payed 2k to build a computer and the price for it in USA to build the same PC would have been 1k.

Also about your mother you do understand that if a person can plug something in they can easy plug in a ram chip right? If you show her how to do it she can simple do it without issue. It's not about she can't do it, it's all about if she willing to learn something she does not care about. My mom is 60 year old and she does not even know how to use a microwave because in cuba they just did not have that in her time i told how to do it and she still end up calling me to do it for her so it all about willing to do something.

I understand people pay for premium and that how they really get ripped off. It's the same thing as someone buying a alienware vs building one themself. I understand some people just don't want to risk building there own computer so they buy a alienware that fine. But when you talking about buying a imac for 2-4k vs building a computer for the same price you just got ripped off.

I don't really care if people buy imac or w/e that up too them it the same for people who buy amd/intel or ati/nvidia. You know tomato tomahto. But remember i trying to prove a point to the person that said that any PC you can build wont be as fast as her imac. A 2k mac vs a 2k build pc is not even a race then the person goes on about labor which i understand cost but we talking about a person building there own pc or asking a friend to build it for them. Not going to bestbuy where they put the most over price i ever seen in my life.

I not trying to be rude or tell someone not to buy something it's just make sure you know what you talking about. A 2k imac is not better then me building my own computer that what i'm talking about or even buying a alienware one.If you want to buy a build computer because you don't want to risk it that fine

Overall point is that person comparison is seriously ridiculous.

[ArkhamNative]

Random Heinlein quote: "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

[Altena]

Go to http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...ac/family/imac and then click on the 27-inch: 3.2GHz then put all the best upgrade for parts not the keyboard and such. It would come down to 3,849.00 or higher so yes that right from the apple store so i don't know what you talking about. Also things in AU is very overprice my friend payed 2k to build a computer and the price for it in USA to build the same PC would have been 1k.

If you add options, sure you can get the price up there, but I presumed you were talking about a bog stock "top model" iMac. It's like a car, if you want sports trimmings or better rims, you pay for that upgrade. However the target consumer for Apple is the common folk who want to purchase something out of the box, in which case is the standard 3 models they offer. When you start customizing stuff and upgrading from those stock models, it starts becoming a lot more advanced for that common consumer market, and that is not really the audience that Apple targets.

Also I definitely do not disagree that building your own computer is cheaper, however people do pay for this simplicity and "out of the box", plug & play premium that PC doesn't really offer.

Also about your mother you do understand that if a person can plug something in they can easy plug in a ram chip right? If you show her how to do it she can simple do it without issue. It's not about she can't do it, it's all about if she willing to learn something she does not care about. My mom is 60 year old and she does not even know how to use a microwave because in cuba they just did not have that in her time i told how to do it and she still end up calling me to do it for her so it all about willing to do something.

Sure anyone can learn if shown, but once again this moves more towards the advanced market that Apple generally don't target, and once again you do pay for this premium of "out of the box" and stress-free design. I definitely don't disagree that building a computer is quite a simplistic task.

I understand people pay for premium and that how they really get ripped off. It's the same thing as someone buying a alienware vs building one themself. I understand some people just don't want to risk building there own computer so they buy a alienware that fine. But when you talking about buying a imac for 2-4k vs building a computer for the same price you just got ripped off.

Is it really getting ripped off if it is a stress free, out of the box design though? People pay others to change a lightbulb, clean the pool, wash the windows, water the garden - all so they themselves don't have to. It is a similar situation - sure it may be cheaper to do it yourself, but service doesn't come free. You can't call a garden company and ask them to water your garden for nothing.

I don't really care if people buy imac or w/e that up too them it the same for people who buy amd/intel or ati/nvidia. You know tomato tomahto. But remember i trying to prove a point to the person that said that any PC you can build wont be as fast as her imac. A 2k mac vs a 2k build pc is not even a race then the person goes on about labor which i understand cost but we talking about a person building there own pc or asking a friend to build it for them. Not going to bestbuy where they put the most over price i ever seen in my life.

There are positives and negatives to both systems, each in my opinion target different audiences, and it is a good thing to have a choice between these products as it caters for a much wider range of people. Yes, you can build a much faster computer (hardware specific) for the same price as you can buy an iMac but you are also missing out on a superior display (which is actually a solid $600-700 in my country), along with the ability to run Mac OS which in itself caters to a certain audience, not commonly found in a gaming community.

I for one am 100% happy with both my iMac and my gaming PC (turned into a hackintosh), so I definitely see room for both products on the market. I use both Windows and Mac OS quite evenly, for completely different tasks and wouldn't do it any other way after using both.

I not trying to be rude or tell someone not to buy something it's just make sure you know what you talking about. A 2k imac is not better then me building my own computer that what i'm talking about or even buying a alienware one.If you want to buy a build computer because you don't want to risk it that fine

Once again that depends on what you are using the system for, what the person is willing to pay for the service of building the system, and what the system offers them in return. I know you are not being rude, and I am trying not to be, so if I am - I apologise, but I do see the weight of both subjects as fairly viable.

People will pay that premium so they don't have to worry / think about both the components that goes into their computer, and the service in building/setting it up. There is room for both of them in the market, and there are people that would prefer each option over the other.

Overall point is that person comparison is seriously ridiculous.

I don't disagree with this :P


For those computer minded people, I honestly recommend building a system that is indeed compatible with Mac OS (a little bit of extra research and knowledge is required), but using PC components (hackintosh) - as you get the best of both worlds. A gaming PC and a powerful MacPro (effectively), all for the same price as a standard gaming PC. The only difference is compatibility - which simply requires some research.

The only thing that you will miss is a market leading display, while there are other alternatives - you do pay a premium for it. You could always use an old iMac or Cinema Display as your Hackintosh monitor though

TLDR;
I don't disagree that building a computer is cheaper, providing you have the knowledge or willingness to learn how to.
You do pay for the service of setting it up so it is ready "out of the box"
You also pay for the cosmetic design, the software/OS, and quite simply the display (which is a leading item in the industry).

[Ricky]

I know you've already gotten a lot of hate but... I'd just like to add some:
You are overpaying for under performance on a platform that may never support a game you want to play, don't do that

Also, to people who say putting a PC together is a lot of labor or difficult, it's basically Legos nowadays
Meanwhile if you open the case on your Apple PC you have voided the warranty

[ispano]

As for the display comment, Apple displays often use the same panels that other high quality Monitor builders use. Dell shares many of the same panels in some of their monitors. For the same price or less AND with more features usually.

I did a bunch of research when I bought my 30" about a year ago.

That makes me remember something else someone said. That apple uses the more expensive panels, IPS and usually good ones at that, as standard. And so some/many(not all mind you) Apple users think that those are standard displays and the cheaper ones in stores are just crap, because Apple's are better. But if you were to ask those same people to pay for a display on it's own of that quality they might balk at the price. I actually met a guy like this one.

Not trying to bash you, just things I have noticed.

[Altena]

As for the display comment, Apple displays often use the same panels that other high quality Monitor builders use. Dell shares many of the same panels in some of their monitors. For the same price or less AND with more features usually.

I did a bunch of research when I bought my 30" about a year ago.

Yep this is true, the "equivalent" displays I was actually hinting at are made by Dell. They can be quite expensive though. Sure, not as expensive as an Apple Cinema display, but it's like buying Nike shoes or Reebok shoes in that regard, you are still paying for the label, and yes that is always something that you cannot ignore.

A lot of Apple's market is actually because they are such sexy looking machines, and I won't deny that. Would you buy a Hyundai i30 or a Mazda 3? I would go the Mazda 3 because I hate the look of the i30 (just a loose example). Cosmetics are important to a lot of people.. You will find a lot of them over on that "Grass" thread

That makes me remember something else someone said. That apple uses the more expensive panels, IPS and usually good ones at that, as standard. And so some/many(not all mind you) Apple users think that those are standard displays and the cheaper ones in stores are just crap, because Apple's are better. But if you were to ask those same people to pay for a display on it's own of that quality they might balk at the price. I actually met a guy like this one.

I don't disagree at all, the Apple displays are not necessarily better or worse built. The big plus on Apple's end is they do make them look much better in my opinion (cosmetic point again), but for the main part of the computer you stare at - that is a really big thing to consider.

Not trying to bash you, just things I have noticed.

I don't see it as bashing as I don't disagree.

I am not some "Apple Only" fanboy, as I know a lot of them are out there. I am just saying that Apple does have a market, and although it may not be yours, or Zenaku's, there is a market for their products.

I don't like the "all Apple products are garbage" mentality because that is false. Apple have a place in the market, but it just may not fit into some people's taste.

Their products don't fall apart after normal use.
Their software is extremely useful for certain tasks, but not for others (same as Windows).
They look more cosmetically appealing in a lot of cases.
They come with a "out of the box", easy setup, user friendly design.

Whereas PC is brand dependent (generally speaking) and you need a little bit more complex knowledge about the hardware to figure out what stick of RAM is better then another stick of RAM.
Windows is very compatible with a wide range of hardware and software, but does lack some of those top end programs that are exclusive to Mac OS.
Their cosmetics *generally* aren't quite as nice in my opinion. Brand specific again though.
They require a little bit more setting up, but you do get good bang for buck.

Both Apple and PC have their own niche. To shun Apple and call them the devil I believe is wrong as they do cater to a specific market, even if it is not "your" market.

[ispano]

I do shun Apple however, but more for their decisions in trying to lock down everything and litigate their way through the times.