ARR and Mac

[Altena]

As for the display comment, Apple displays often use the same panels that other high quality Monitor builders use. Dell shares many of the same panels in some of their monitors. For the same price or less AND with more features usually.

I did a bunch of research when I bought my 30" about a year ago.

Yep this is true, the "equivalent" displays I was actually hinting at are made by Dell. They can be quite expensive though. Sure, not as expensive as an Apple Cinema display, but it's like buying Nike shoes or Reebok shoes in that regard, you are still paying for the label, and yes that is always something that you cannot ignore.

A lot of Apple's market is actually because they are such sexy looking machines, and I won't deny that. Would you buy a Hyundai i30 or a Mazda 3? I would go the Mazda 3 because I hate the look of the i30 (just a loose example). Cosmetics are important to a lot of people.. You will find a lot of them over on that "Grass" thread

That makes me remember something else someone said. That apple uses the more expensive panels, IPS and usually good ones at that, as standard. And so some/many(not all mind you) Apple users think that those are standard displays and the cheaper ones in stores are just crap, because Apple's are better. But if you were to ask those same people to pay for a display on it's own of that quality they might balk at the price. I actually met a guy like this one.

I don't disagree at all, the Apple displays are not necessarily better or worse built. The big plus on Apple's end is they do make them look much better in my opinion (cosmetic point again), but for the main part of the computer you stare at - that is a really big thing to consider.

Not trying to bash you, just things I have noticed.

I don't see it as bashing as I don't disagree.

I am not some "Apple Only" fanboy, as I know a lot of them are out there. I am just saying that Apple does have a market, and although it may not be yours, or Zenaku's, there is a market for their products.

I don't like the "all Apple products are garbage" mentality because that is false. Apple have a place in the market, but it just may not fit into some people's taste.

Their products don't fall apart after normal use.
Their software is extremely useful for certain tasks, but not for others (same as Windows).
They look more cosmetically appealing in a lot of cases.
They come with a "out of the box", easy setup, user friendly design.

Whereas PC is brand dependent (generally speaking) and you need a little bit more complex knowledge about the hardware to figure out what stick of RAM is better then another stick of RAM.
Windows is very compatible with a wide range of hardware and software, but does lack some of those top end programs that are exclusive to Mac OS.
Their cosmetics *generally* aren't quite as nice in my opinion. Brand specific again though.
They require a little bit more setting up, but you do get good bang for buck.

Both Apple and PC have their own niche. To shun Apple and call them the devil I believe is wrong as they do cater to a specific market, even if it is not "your" market.

[ispano]

I do shun Apple however, but more for their decisions in trying to lock down everything and litigate their way through the times.

[Altena]

I do shun Apple however, but more for their decisions in trying to lock down everything and litigate their way through the times.

I am also not a fan of the direction they have been heading since Mr. Jobbs passed away.

The regular MacBook Pro is pretty much the final stamp that is holding onto the older Apple direction. It is currently the only fixable/hardware replacable "all-in-one" that they offer. A lot of the hardware is now glued to the logic board - including the retina screen on the new MacBook Pro.

In my opinion, people that buy an MacBook Pro, or Mac Pro generally want the freedom to be able to replace parts if needed, as they are the more "premium" or "advanced" products that they offer. They are generally the items that a slightly more computer-savy person would buy. The MacBook Air however, I feel is more targeted toward the people that would simply replace a computer/laptop if it no longer worked.

Although they are basically letting the public decide their direction with the current MacBook Pro series.

Do consumers want a fixable, upgradable, product, or a aesthetically pleasing, non-fixable, non-upgradable product?
We see this in the Retina vs. Standard MacBook Pro's, as the standard is an easy product to fix, however the retina is glued in and difficult to fix.

*edit* Just on a side note, I am not making these posts to "convert PC users to Mac" as I don't believe that is right, or possible. I just hope to point out a few things that Apple do, both good and bad, that would help someone decide whether they want to look at using their products.

If you look at both items with an open mind, and an unbiased opinion, the answer is that both have their own place in the market, and that some people do actually benefit from Apple products being the way they are.

I for one used to be PC exclusive, until I started looking into what made Mac OS so great, and later learned from experience that Apple do indeed release quality products for specific areas of use. They do some things better then a PC, but a PC do some things better then a Mac. I believe that to be an undeniable fact.

[ispano]

Since he passed away? It may be worse, but they've been doing that since before he died.

[Altena]

Since he passed away? It may be worse, but they've been doing that since before he died.

If you did a full teardown on any of their products before he passed, most of their components were fixable and upgradable by the user, provided you could source the hardware. The "Genius bar" employees (despite them being a bunch of do-so, unintelligent beings ) could fix nearly any issue on the earlier Macs on the spot (given a few hours depending), whereas now - all of their Macs aside from the regular MacBook Pro has to be sent away for pretty much any hardware issue.

Just looking at the teardowns on iFixit.com would show you this. None of their hardware was "glued in" as such (perhaps the logic board, but the other components weren't).

Since Jobbs passed away, all of their products aside from the regular MacBook Pro and Mac Pro are practically unfixable.

*edit* I will leave it at that though. Once again, I am not trying to convert a PC fanboy to give a Mac a go, I am just trying to highlight both sides of the fence so people can make a slightly more informed decision.

I see my opinion as fairly unbiased as I have had a lot of experience with both PC and Mac products, whereas a lot of the standpoints in this thread are based from one specific side of the market.

[ispano]

I'm not talking about the build of their computers. I'm talking about how they treat pretty much everyone else.

Like slipping other programs into the iTunes install without notice, multiple times.

Devising programs/hardware that are designed to lock or hinder your device if you don't pay attention to the ad it is displaying.

Treating your hardware as theirs, even after you buy it. This is most visible in the iPhone/iPod Touch Jailbreak. On that note as well. They've even applied for a patent that would/could let them "disable" a jailbroken iDevice.

These are just some of the reasons I won't give a penny to Apple for anything.

[Altena]

I'm not talking about the build of their computers. I'm talking about how they treat pretty much everyone else.

Like slipping other programs into the iTunes install without notice, multiple times.

You have no idea how many drivers when building my most recent system actually tried to slip "McCaffe" and "Norton" on my Windows partition.. A good 3-4 different installers. So many companies on the Windows side are guilty of this also. Even Microsoft try to tack "Bing toolbar" on IE.

I haven't actually experienced any of this on Mac OS personally... If you are talking about Quicktime etc, that is sort of part of the iTunes package.

Devising programs/hardware that are designed to lock or hinder your device if you don't pay attention to the ad it is displaying.

Again, huh? Youtube does this, and many other websites but once again I have not experienced this with Mac software :/

I want screenshots of this... If you are talking about iPhone apps and what not - they are made by developers, not Apple. The third party dev company are responsible for this.

Treating your hardware as theirs, even after you buy it. This is most visible in the iPhone/iPod Touch Jailbreak. On that note as well. They've even applied for a patent that would/could let them "disable" a jailbroken iDevice.

Eh, just don't try and get free stuff for nothing and you won't have a problem. Piracy is illegal, and jailbroken devices allow you to use "hacked" software developed by companies that are trying to run a business. Windows does this also - with their genuine advantage system etc.

If anything, Apple is a little more welcoming when having multiple computers. Mac OS as a prime example is legally licensed for up to 3 computers for the cost of the $30 OS (so if you have 3 computers, that is effectively $10 per install).

Windows is technically only licensed for 1 device for $100 (unless it has changed since Win8).

These are just some of the reasons I won't give a penny to Apple for anything.

Many PC companies are guilty of the exact things you listed.

[Laraul]

I'm not talking about the build of their computers. I'm talking about how they treat pretty much everyone else.

Like slipping other programs into the iTunes install without notice, multiple times.

Devising programs/hardware that are designed to lock or hinder your device if you don't pay attention to the ad it is displaying.

Treating your hardware as theirs, even after you buy it. This is most visible in the iPhone/iPod Touch Jailbreak. On that note as well. They've even applied for a patent that would/could let them "disable" a jailbroken iDevice.

These are just some of the reasons I won't give a penny to Apple for anything.

What programs has Apple slipped into the iTunes install?

What hardware do they lock down?

How do they treat your hardware as their own?

Apple's own comment on jailbreaking mentions none of this. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3743

[ispano]

What programs has Apple slipped into the iTunes install?

What hardware do they lock down?

How do they treat your hardware as their own?

Apple's own comment on jailbreaking mentions none of this. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3743

1. Safari, MobileMe and there was another. Safari however was the big one because they abused the Security Updates feature of auto installing to push it, so if you had Security Updates set to auto install, you magically ended up with Safari.

2 and 3. All their hardware. They only want you doing what they want you doing with their hardware. It's currently legal to Jailbreak an iPhone, but Apple still tries to stop people from doing it. If someone wants to modify a device they bought, let them. If they go do something illegal beyond that, then Apple can bring the hammer down.