Job Leveling / Separate Idenity

[Shougun]

well the the grid kills the point of having choice, and a waste of time to make. they should just leave it like it is, no choice on where the job can grow that way no problems in the future.

Well there are more reasons then choice for what I suggested - but also keep in mind I suggested all three.

Normally I try to be more specific for what I suggest but honestly all I want to see is jobs be their own ideinity like -everyone- here is saying. I dont care how, I just want it to happen. I saw this as 1 of the many ways you could do it.

Now the reason why I suggested this one is because Jobs MUST take some of the classes skills like what is a WHM without cure? Well that's in CNJ. So WHM must take some of CNJ skills but you dont want all of them - and how do you tell the players which ones are coming and which ones are going. On a really long tooltip? Soulstone information is 5 pages long? lol I didnt think that was a good idea.

So I said what if we made it visual. Here you could see the WHM Diverge by taking new abilities and passives, and converge by taking old class skills. When you first start the grid, sphere, thing, you will have some of it pre filled out - this would explain the basisi. And the growth would help maintain logical coherency on the growth of the class. (Not only would this help explain gameplay mechanics but you could make the gameplay mechanic itself fun as well as the fact that it fits in nicely - since the soulstones are presumably solid aether similar to the aeteherytes.. so its like you are growing your special materia that captured the soul rather then the experience of an event)

Otherwise you will have random spells coming in and not coming in and players will be like wtf? Also using this grid allows you to break some rules like adding weapons and such (all you would need is a sphere equipped so it doesn't change you into another class).

Now in the Crystarium and the Sphere grid you have great opportunity for choice and act like real talent trees. But that wasnt the main point of my post. I like choice, I like making my choices and yes as many pointed out its hard to design multiple choices rather then one best choice (but when it happens its worth it).

All I care is to logically explain how the jobs can separate and yet lay dependent on, while not telling Yoshida to do everything over again ("redesign all characters"). You can start them all from fresh and I'd like that too, but I feel that would require more work and even work into the armory system. While this grid system would take a new UI element you wouldn't have to redesign the classes, just bits and pieces / reorganization of the jobs.

i said this when the jobs came along.
when you turn into a job ALL the skills need to change to fit that job. other wise were stuck with class version 1.5

If all skills changed it would help out logically, because only some changing would be a logical inconsistency that would look like the dev didnt polish the game. But then how would you make the white mage adopt cure without changing it?

I suppose you could make the Jobs their own but only take 5 skills from classes (so the ratio is flipped).


Also this grid/cryst/sphere system lets Jobs level on their own - making the duo jobs from class system possible for two reasons 1 jobs can be their own 2 jobs are further their own as they level on their own

[indira]

If all skills changed it would help out logically, because only some changing would be a logical inconsistency that would look like the dev didnt polish the game. But then how would you make the white mage adopt cure without changing it?

I suppose you could make the Jobs their own but only take 5 skills from classes (so the ratio is flipped).


Also this grid/cryst/sphere system lets Jobs level on their own - making the duo jobs from class system possible for two reasons 1 jobs can be their own 2 jobs are further their own as they level on their own

thats thinking in the same old box, reason why some many games in general are clone with different graphics. people keep wanting the same old systems that already exist. and you can change anything.

they need to make classes = jobs other wise no one will care for the classes when they get the job.
either way nothing like that is gonna happen this game is being made for quick play, days of the time sinks are dead.

[indira]

Jobs were created to give classes identities.


not quite but near as damn it. save for 1 or 2 abilities they both play pretty much identically.

which ultimately was the original problem with classes. there was a set of skills and that set of skills you would use whether you were pugilist lancer marauder gladiator or archer. all classes were basically identical.

Jobs exist to create diversity and variety where classes failed.

monk is kung fu asian, pug boxer western

gladiator fighter, paladin holy knight

archer bow shooting guy, bard plays music

and so on.

you can make them way different, i call the team lazy in that aspect of making classes/jobs.

[Shougun]

thats thinking in the same old box, reason why some many games in general are clone with different graphics. people keep wanting the same old systems that already exist. and you can change anything.

they need to make classes = jobs other wise no one will care for the classes when they get the job.
either way nothing like that is gonna happen this game is being made for quick play, days of the time sinks are dead.

A, a level system like that has really never (that I know of) been put into an mmorpg
B, what is different then just making classes lead directly into jobs and making the classes useless that isnt the same old box

Within the idea I suggested jobs diverge from classes but classes can still exist.

Jobs would obtain ALL of their abilities from their visual leveling system, while classes would level the normal way. Classes would continue to be required not only to develop jobs and make jobs but also because they would have a superior freedom, as jobs again would never adopt things "just because" it would only be added to the grid when the dev though that particular ability should be added.

In a matter in box out of box, its out of the box (but messy, having two different leveling systems is not merit wise is unheard of (again, that I know of).

In the box thinking is to suggest that we should just make classes lead to jobs.

Edit: Your next post makes it obvious that you meant that all things are jobs. I thought you meant Classes -> Jobs kinda of like it is.

I still dont know how you feel that is out of the box thinking and yet what I suggested is "cloning" other mmorpgs. Which have never done it. Though again I think the best idea is to start them all their own similar to the true FFT, FFXI system but that isnt out of the box.. its just preferred.