Job Leveling / Separate Idenity

[Shurrikhan]

No because at the end people would make the best skill to be unlock so it end up being useless. It's works fine in a offline game but a online game players would always find the best set up and make other use it.

"Non-optimal" specs will often outdo "perfect" specs in the hands of an equally skilled player who better considers the fight at hand, or the general needs of fights outside of the "perfect" conditions for dealing damage. Bits of utility can drop dps requirements to deal with harmful adds, reduce replenishment effects needed, improve closing time, allow ghost-tanking, any manner of things impossible in a "perfect" spec. And better yet, the players who make them know just how to use every trick they've picked.

With any decent depth of fight mechanics, a forum-spec user will rarely be able to get the potential out of his "perfect" spec that he or she ought to, because it was designed for the needs and conditions of a very advanced player, hence its dps reach. And even they will admit that outside of their usual raid teams, they'd often side more with other factors, and that is often only because they know other players have that utility that they can invest themselves so finely without being useless.

Some people are good at being dps bombs, some are great supporters. As long as design is decent, "perfect" speccing is a matter of being part of some vaguely defined group that isn't in overuse compared to the needs of the game's raid composition designs or the fight specifically, and fits what you are good at (and likely enjoy as a result).

[Zenaku]

Armory system wouldnt need to be rebuilt for this, the Job system would need to be tweaked a lot though.


The main thing I'd see from this is that through a charged sphere or a shattered sphere you could intermix using class and job abilities. Because can you imagine at level 80 without this system you get all your two classes abilities and your own Job abilities. Its a cluster fck lol


In this way the job would be paced normally instead of on some hectic exponential ability splurge each expansion (also makes balancing the job later on much easier as you can control things better both on class and job side).

that sound ok but don't see it happening you may think it make it easier but it may make harder if not they would have made it. I don't see them changing anything with the job/class this late in the ARR rebuild so ya but if your legacy post on the beta forums and see if they may add something to job/class that close to what you asking.

[Shurrikhan]

Back to the actual thread--sorry for my tangent...

I'd rather not use any of the original systems, but I can't deny that they'd be pretty "FF" to use, and would enjoy seeing the customization. Honestly though, I don't think any of it's going to make much difference without more depth being added to the classes themselves, which won't really be doable until more depth is given to the combat system as a whole, and the method of giving and defining abilities has been restructured.

[Shougun]

that sound ok but don't see it happening you may think it make it easier but it may make harder if not they would have made it. I don't see them changing anything with the job/class this late in the ARR rebuild so ya but if your legacy post on the beta forums and see if they may add something to job/class that close to what you asking.

Definitely going to try beta before I decide to post it or not on the beta forums lol


And I R Legarusu


I dont know for sure if it makes it easier but I feel it does because when you add a bunch of abilities to your classes you dont want them to feel sucky but then you have to worry about your job adopting those abilities and becoming what its not or becoming OP - so then you don't add what you want. Rather you use the sphere system and just cherry pick - I think that would be easier to balance as a dev.

[Altanas]

I'd be interested in a grid/specs that enabled me to focus on armour types for different purposes and with good reason, as opposed to the basic "stack accuracy" "stack strength" etc

E.g to make an agile, light armoured PLD v Heavily armoured PLD you could invest in light or heavy armour passive traits, that have various bonuses or penalties to impact casting times, potencies, damage mitigation, ability recasts

A light v heavy pld would in essence do the same role but the playstyle has the potential to be a lot different.

It makes a change from the basic "ok lets just buy all the accuracy gear on the AH and go whack garuda"

[Shurrikhan]

I'd be interested in a grid/specs that enabled me to focus on armour types for different purposes and with good reason, as opposed to the basic "stack accuracy" "stack strength" etc

E.g to make an agile, light armoured PLD v Heavily armoured PLD you could invest in light or heavy armour passive traits, that have various bonuses or penalties to impact casting times, potencies, damage mitigation, ability recasts

A light v heavy pld would in essence do the same role but the playstyle has the potential to be a lot different.

It makes a change from the basic "ok lets just buy all the accuracy gear on the AH and go whack garuda"

So I could be a monk who specializes using a plate shoulder on one side for shoulder tackle, adding weight to my punches and kicks via hand and feet armor, or reduce their slowing my movements?

Sounds like animation contingencies (imagine a greatsword user in plate using the gladiator flip move... how much impact force would be in that, but how much strength it'd take to make its full potential, and the different speeds or starting points you'd see in the animation), which, especially paired with a difference between accuracy and getting around an enemy's avoidance (taken into two different rolls), could make a world of difference.

[Dzian]

The only real way to sort of get around cookie cutters is to try and negate them. which is quite a lot of work to get right.

What I essentially mean is that if you have 4 or 5 major pieces of endgame content design it so that what is optimal in one isn't optimal in the other 3 or 4. but it's really hard to get a level kind of balance across the board.

it was one of the particularly huge flaws in xi. piercing damage was supreme and ice and thunder where the only elements to put your merits into. because i would guess 80% of the bestiary was weak to piercing ice and thunder.

Thus to prevent that sort of thing happening in xiv there would need to be a lot more balance across content and jobs. ultimately though even that wouldn't stop optimal builds. perhaps of the contents available your shell / fc may only focus on 2 or 3 and thus it would be those 2 or 3 that you would end up tailoring your build for. and then you'd respec your stats or whatever when your fc shifted focus to a different set of contents.

I do like the idea of complete freedom in how I build my jobs. but even in 1.0 you could see it was false. hmmm 45 attribute points for my monk where should i put them. bam str and int. every single monk....

[Alaltus]

I'm not really a fan of the Crystarium/sphere grid etc etc systems but i can see how it might work. Personally though i would probbably rather equip spheres/abilities/traits/what have you rather than be adding or deleting things on my grid for long periods of time like in X. So if adding/deleting things was bassically just equipping/unequipping then i could be cool with that depending on how they implemented it. This sort of system would have to be deeply rooted in each job because otherwise it would negate the need for classes altogether. This kind of system is largely used to do what the armoury system does or did.

SE should try to keep things simple and not delve too deep into creating numerous variations of a single job. I want to see Classes and Jobs seperated but it should be easy to pick up upon what benefits each Class brings to the Jobs.

[Altena]

To be honest I actually hate the "skill tree" systems (and similar). Certainly for a post level cap / "merit point" (XI haters gonna hate) system it works but for the core elements of the game, I would much rather set skills learned at the associated levels (as is).

As soon as a new battle mechanic shows up, and you discover that a certain skill is required / more useful in that particular content, it kind of forces you to rework your points and what not...

Another negative with skill tree systems is you have to allocate your points as you go / select your skills and when you are just levelling a job. Sometimes the description of the skill is either underwhelming over overwhelming (the description says "causes huge rediculous amounts of massive aoe damage" but it is really extremely weak compared to one that says "deals single target damage"). When you are a newbie leveling up, you select the skill that sounds like it would be the most useful then later finding out that it is garbage.

Keep every class/job for everyone the same, until level cap. After you hit level cap you can look at doing some customization.

[Zetsumei_Tsunarashi]

I just wish they would make the job system like FF tactics. It's a tiered job system where leveling up low tier jobs unlocks higher tier jobs. If they make it so you can only unlock a limited amount of jobs in each tier this will make it a sort of "talent tree" system like what you are talking about.

For example they could implement a cumulative level cap. Where you can only accumulate say 800 total levels for example. In expansions they could add higher job tiers and raise the cumulative level cap.

This would make the armory system more interesting as well, because you would have to carefully plan out which jobs you want to level, and how far, in order to learn certain abilities for your main job (highest tier job).

They could even expand it to include stats, where leveling up certain jobs increases your base stats for each level you gain on that job. For example, every level you gain as a WHM increases your base MND stat.

If they do it like that, the armory system itself effectively becomes like a "talent tree" system. Where you have to carefully plan your levels in order to create the type of character you want in the end. Depending on how you distribute your levels you can be either extremely specialized or you can be more versatile. Just depends how you use your levels.