Job Leveling / Separate Idenity

[fusional]

No because at the end people would make the best skill to be unlock so it end up being useless. It's works fine in a offline game but a online game players would always find the best set up and make other use it.

you just really hate doing optimal dps, don't you?

[Zenaku]

you just really hate doing optimal dps, don't you?

No the point is the system give you freedom to become anything or do anything under one class right? Will it end up being if you don't have X,Y,Z level and have A,B,C unlock then get out of my party. So then what would be the point of making such a awesome system to be end up being use one way and not the many way it could be.

it's not about optimal dps it's the fact that it would cost a lot of money,time just to make a system where everyone going to end up being one thing for each class anyways. Wish it was not like that but sadly it's not so that my point.

At least i did not say no and not even a reason for it like what most people do on here.


@Shougun ya i understand what you mean but at the end not even half of the spells unlock would be used. People would find the best setup and only use that too SE update then they make a new set up. That my point i love for a system like that but it just going to be end up being pointless no one going to use it to the fullest.

[Elexia]

No the point is the system give you freedom to become anything or do anything under one class right?

This didn't work. I hope you didn't unlock Dragoon on your Lancer, then.

[indira]

you just really hate doing optimal dps, don't you?

well the the grid kills the point of having choice, and a waste of time to make. they should just leave it like it is, no choice on where the job can grow that way no problems in the future.

Frankly, I think Jobs need to have more than just 5 abilities tied to them. They should also alter about half of the traits a given class has. This would also allow classes to branch into multiple jobs with fewer conflicts, as well as giving jobs a significantly different feel compared to the base class.

For example, give Gladiator a decent mix of offensive and defensive traits. When they change to Paladin, the offensive traits would convert to more defensive/tank utility traits. And down the road if Gladiator gets a dps job tied to it, the defensive traits could convert to more offensive/dps utility traits.

i said this when the jobs came along.
when you turn into a job ALL the skills need to change to fit that job. other wise were stuck with class version 1.5

[Dzian]

when you turn into a job ALL the skills need to change to fit that job. other wise were stuck with class version 1.5

Umm. IF all your skills and traits change to something completely different when you switch from a class to a job then whats the point in tying them together. i'm a gladiator i know sentinal but im a paladin suddenly i forgot sentinal and learnt something different...

if you're going to do that then you may as well just have every job as a totally seperate entity and scrap the armory all together.

[indira]

Umm. IF all your skills and traits change to something completely different when you switch from a class to a job then whats the point in tying them together. i'm a gladiator i know sentinal but im a paladin suddenly i forgot sentinal and learnt something different...

if you're going to do that then you may as well just have every job as a totally seperate entity and scrap the armory all together.

whats the point in having jobs? you only get 5 skills

mnk is not the same as pug, JOB's are the spirits of something else.

[Dzian]

whats the point in having jobs?.

Jobs were created to give classes identities.

mnk is not the same as pug

not quite but near as damn it. save for 1 or 2 abilities they both play pretty much identically.

which ultimately was the original problem with classes. there was a set of skills and that set of skills you would use whether you were pugilist lancer marauder gladiator or archer. all classes were basically identical.

Jobs exist to create diversity and variety where classes failed.

[Mychael]

Jobs exist to create diversity and variety where classes failed.

However, they fixed [aka limited] classes to differentiate them, then threw jobs on top as overkill.

Also, I'd like to disagree with your use of "diversity" and "variety." Pre-reform classes allowed each player to pick their own set of abilities, i.e. every player was diverse. Post-reform, everyone has one of the predefined skillsets.

[Radacci]

Jobs were created to give classes identities.


not quite but near as damn it. save for 1 or 2 abilities they both play pretty much identically.

which ultimately was the original problem with classes. there was a set of skills and that set of skills you would use whether you were pugilist lancer marauder gladiator or archer. all classes were basically identical.

Jobs exist to create diversity and variety where classes failed.

Such a shame that jobs have no identity then except bard maybe.
Jobs are highly circumstantial, and you don't use their skills a lot anyways, except a few, in party.
Jobs don't give diversity, it's the other way around. Jobs are limited in nr of cross-skills they can use, for (mostly) little benefit.
While classes can use many cross-skills from many other classes.

However, they fixed [aka limited] classes to differentiate them, then threw jobs on top as overkill.

Also, I'd like to disagree with your use of "diversity" and "variety." Pre-reform classes allowed each player to pick their own set of abilities, i.e. every player was diverse. Post-reform, everyone has one of the predefined skillsets.

It's hardly overkill, when you don't even use Job skills most of the time. How often do you use any BLM skills outside party for example? and even then you probably use mostly sleep and Flare.
WHM mostly just regain
DRG, Jump?
You're limiting yourself, for basically no gains.
That's why Jobs need many more skills, to feel unique.

[Shougun]

well the the grid kills the point of having choice, and a waste of time to make. they should just leave it like it is, no choice on where the job can grow that way no problems in the future.

Well there are more reasons then choice for what I suggested - but also keep in mind I suggested all three.

Normally I try to be more specific for what I suggest but honestly all I want to see is jobs be their own ideinity like -everyone- here is saying. I dont care how, I just want it to happen. I saw this as 1 of the many ways you could do it.

Now the reason why I suggested this one is because Jobs MUST take some of the classes skills like what is a WHM without cure? Well that's in CNJ. So WHM must take some of CNJ skills but you dont want all of them - and how do you tell the players which ones are coming and which ones are going. On a really long tooltip? Soulstone information is 5 pages long? lol I didnt think that was a good idea.

So I said what if we made it visual. Here you could see the WHM Diverge by taking new abilities and passives, and converge by taking old class skills. When you first start the grid, sphere, thing, you will have some of it pre filled out - this would explain the basisi. And the growth would help maintain logical coherency on the growth of the class. (Not only would this help explain gameplay mechanics but you could make the gameplay mechanic itself fun as well as the fact that it fits in nicely - since the soulstones are presumably solid aether similar to the aeteherytes.. so its like you are growing your special materia that captured the soul rather then the experience of an event)

Otherwise you will have random spells coming in and not coming in and players will be like wtf? Also using this grid allows you to break some rules like adding weapons and such (all you would need is a sphere equipped so it doesn't change you into another class).

Now in the Crystarium and the Sphere grid you have great opportunity for choice and act like real talent trees. But that wasnt the main point of my post. I like choice, I like making my choices and yes as many pointed out its hard to design multiple choices rather then one best choice (but when it happens its worth it).

All I care is to logically explain how the jobs can separate and yet lay dependent on, while not telling Yoshida to do everything over again ("redesign all characters"). You can start them all from fresh and I'd like that too, but I feel that would require more work and even work into the armory system. While this grid system would take a new UI element you wouldn't have to redesign the classes, just bits and pieces / reorganization of the jobs.

i said this when the jobs came along.
when you turn into a job ALL the skills need to change to fit that job. other wise were stuck with class version 1.5

If all skills changed it would help out logically, because only some changing would be a logical inconsistency that would look like the dev didnt polish the game. But then how would you make the white mage adopt cure without changing it?

I suppose you could make the Jobs their own but only take 5 skills from classes (so the ratio is flipped).


Also this grid/cryst/sphere system lets Jobs level on their own - making the duo jobs from class system possible for two reasons 1 jobs can be their own 2 jobs are further their own as they level on their own