Job Leveling / Separate Idenity

[Shougun]

with the job system they said they adding more job to each class making them each different. Sure atm they only have 5 spell but at level 65 that would be over 15 spells more then enough to make two jobs link to one class very different if that what you looking for overall it's a nice system you talking about but i just don't see them making it work for a online game. Or waste there time rebuilding the Armory system

Armory system wouldnt need to be rebuilt for this, the Job system would need to be tweaked a lot though.


The main thing I'd see from this is that through a charged sphere or a shattered sphere you could intermix using class and job abilities. Because can you imagine at level 80 without this system you get all your two classes abilities and your own Job abilities. Its a cluster fck lol


In this way the job would be paced normally instead of on some hectic exponential ability splurge each expansion (also makes balancing the job later on much easier as you can control things better both on class and job side).

[Zenaku]

Armory system wouldnt need to be rebuilt for this, the Job system would need to be tweaked a lot though.


The main thing I'd see from this is that through a charged sphere or a shattered sphere you could intermix using class and job abilities. Because can you imagine at level 80 without this system you get all your two classes abilities and your own Job abilities. Its a cluster fck lol


In this way the job would be paced normally instead of on some hectic exponential ability splurge each expansion (also makes balancing the job later on much easier as you can control things better both on class and job side).

that sound ok but don't see it happening you may think it make it easier but it may make harder if not they would have made it. I don't see them changing anything with the job/class this late in the ARR rebuild so ya but if your legacy post on the beta forums and see if they may add something to job/class that close to what you asking.

[Shurrikhan]

Back to the actual thread--sorry for my tangent...

I'd rather not use any of the original systems, but I can't deny that they'd be pretty "FF" to use, and would enjoy seeing the customization. Honestly though, I don't think any of it's going to make much difference without more depth being added to the classes themselves, which won't really be doable until more depth is given to the combat system as a whole, and the method of giving and defining abilities has been restructured.

[Altanas]

I'd be interested in a grid/specs that enabled me to focus on armour types for different purposes and with good reason, as opposed to the basic "stack accuracy" "stack strength" etc

E.g to make an agile, light armoured PLD v Heavily armoured PLD you could invest in light or heavy armour passive traits, that have various bonuses or penalties to impact casting times, potencies, damage mitigation, ability recasts

A light v heavy pld would in essence do the same role but the playstyle has the potential to be a lot different.

It makes a change from the basic "ok lets just buy all the accuracy gear on the AH and go whack garuda"

[Shurrikhan]

I'd be interested in a grid/specs that enabled me to focus on armour types for different purposes and with good reason, as opposed to the basic "stack accuracy" "stack strength" etc

E.g to make an agile, light armoured PLD v Heavily armoured PLD you could invest in light or heavy armour passive traits, that have various bonuses or penalties to impact casting times, potencies, damage mitigation, ability recasts

A light v heavy pld would in essence do the same role but the playstyle has the potential to be a lot different.

It makes a change from the basic "ok lets just buy all the accuracy gear on the AH and go whack garuda"

So I could be a monk who specializes using a plate shoulder on one side for shoulder tackle, adding weight to my punches and kicks via hand and feet armor, or reduce their slowing my movements?

Sounds like animation contingencies (imagine a greatsword user in plate using the gladiator flip move... how much impact force would be in that, but how much strength it'd take to make its full potential, and the different speeds or starting points you'd see in the animation), which, especially paired with a difference between accuracy and getting around an enemy's avoidance (taken into two different rolls), could make a world of difference.

[Dzian]

The only real way to sort of get around cookie cutters is to try and negate them. which is quite a lot of work to get right.

What I essentially mean is that if you have 4 or 5 major pieces of endgame content design it so that what is optimal in one isn't optimal in the other 3 or 4. but it's really hard to get a level kind of balance across the board.

it was one of the particularly huge flaws in xi. piercing damage was supreme and ice and thunder where the only elements to put your merits into. because i would guess 80% of the bestiary was weak to piercing ice and thunder.

Thus to prevent that sort of thing happening in xiv there would need to be a lot more balance across content and jobs. ultimately though even that wouldn't stop optimal builds. perhaps of the contents available your shell / fc may only focus on 2 or 3 and thus it would be those 2 or 3 that you would end up tailoring your build for. and then you'd respec your stats or whatever when your fc shifted focus to a different set of contents.

I do like the idea of complete freedom in how I build my jobs. but even in 1.0 you could see it was false. hmmm 45 attribute points for my monk where should i put them. bam str and int. every single monk....

[Alaltus]

I'm not really a fan of the Crystarium/sphere grid etc etc systems but i can see how it might work. Personally though i would probbably rather equip spheres/abilities/traits/what have you rather than be adding or deleting things on my grid for long periods of time like in X. So if adding/deleting things was bassically just equipping/unequipping then i could be cool with that depending on how they implemented it. This sort of system would have to be deeply rooted in each job because otherwise it would negate the need for classes altogether. This kind of system is largely used to do what the armoury system does or did.

SE should try to keep things simple and not delve too deep into creating numerous variations of a single job. I want to see Classes and Jobs seperated but it should be easy to pick up upon what benefits each Class brings to the Jobs.

[Altena]

To be honest I actually hate the "skill tree" systems (and similar). Certainly for a post level cap / "merit point" (XI haters gonna hate) system it works but for the core elements of the game, I would much rather set skills learned at the associated levels (as is).

As soon as a new battle mechanic shows up, and you discover that a certain skill is required / more useful in that particular content, it kind of forces you to rework your points and what not...

Another negative with skill tree systems is you have to allocate your points as you go / select your skills and when you are just levelling a job. Sometimes the description of the skill is either underwhelming over overwhelming (the description says "causes huge rediculous amounts of massive aoe damage" but it is really extremely weak compared to one that says "deals single target damage"). When you are a newbie leveling up, you select the skill that sounds like it would be the most useful then later finding out that it is garbage.

Keep every class/job for everyone the same, until level cap. After you hit level cap you can look at doing some customization.

[Zetsumei_Tsunarashi]

I just wish they would make the job system like FF tactics. It's a tiered job system where leveling up low tier jobs unlocks higher tier jobs. If they make it so you can only unlock a limited amount of jobs in each tier this will make it a sort of "talent tree" system like what you are talking about.

For example they could implement a cumulative level cap. Where you can only accumulate say 800 total levels for example. In expansions they could add higher job tiers and raise the cumulative level cap.

This would make the armory system more interesting as well, because you would have to carefully plan out which jobs you want to level, and how far, in order to learn certain abilities for your main job (highest tier job).

They could even expand it to include stats, where leveling up certain jobs increases your base stats for each level you gain on that job. For example, every level you gain as a WHM increases your base MND stat.

If they do it like that, the armory system itself effectively becomes like a "talent tree" system. Where you have to carefully plan your levels in order to create the type of character you want in the end. Depending on how you distribute your levels you can be either extremely specialized or you can be more versatile. Just depends how you use your levels.

[Shougun]

I just wish they would make the job system like FF tactics. It's a tiered job system where leveling up low tier jobs unlocks higher tier jobs. If they make it so you can only unlock a limited amount of jobs in each tier this will make it a sort of "talent tree" system like what you are talking about.

For example they could implement a cumulative level cap. Where you can only accumulate say 800 total levels for example. In expansions they could add higher job tiers and raise the cumulative level cap.

This would make the armory system more interesting as well, because you would have to carefully plan out which jobs you want to level, and how far, in order to learn certain abilities for your main job (highest tier job).

They could even expand it to include stats, where leveling up certain jobs increases your base stats for each level you gain on that job. For example, every level you gain as a WHM increases your base MND stat.

If they do it like that, the armory system itself effectively becomes like a "talent tree" system. Where you have to carefully plan your levels in order to create the type of character you want in the end. Depending on how you distribute your levels you can be either extremely specialized or you can be more versatile. Just depends how you use your levels.

You could go really complex with the system I guess. I mean I like them in the single player games for that, the reason why I suggested here was simple though.


- I didnt want to say "remake the system" because thats what I want to say, since day 1 and never changed I always felt a FFT system, a FFXI system, just the classic FF system was far superior to what we have now. And if there was any way to reach that without tearing everything down then thats awesome - and I feel that this system could get pretty damn close to Jobs being their own (Over a longer period of time they would definitely be). I mean currently if nothing changes in the class job system then your X class spells will always go to your job and your job will or should gain spells so in 20 levels your going to have a shit ton of probably unrelated skills to the theme of the job and restricted to one set of weapons or making some werid rules to equip weapons .. just .. bleh.. lol


Maybe Yoshida has mastermind trajected the class and jobs far into the future and knows that he has 10 years of content before it collapses. But I see it collapsing at some point (without any changes made) .

The available complexity and making choices or not is something the system can do, but it wasn't my main point. My main point is I don't like the current system lol and while I know many do, I also know many that dont. Its definitely not a 90% like it kind of thing (at least from random game talking and those who are willing to talk about jobs on the forums). So here the old system isnt destroyed but a new growth system is added to jobs so they can build more separate from classes, and are not restricted to what classes are because classes are restricted more then just weapons because of how they behave.