Necromancer: Discussion of the dead

[AceofRains]

This or that game having or not having something isn't really much of an argument (But if you want to play that way, as the previous poster said, there isn't much precedent when a job only exists in not even a regular main series game, but rather a remake of one). To be blunt I think they'd be doing a lot more than one FF fan a great service by using another more famous job like blue mage, time mage, or dark knight.

The thing is Necromancers are generally evil in fantasy worlds, with the most notable exception being Diablo II, but even in that game world, most necromancers certainly are evil, only the one you happen to be able to play isn't (wholly) evil. This makes them not fit in very well in a game where you aren't really playing the bad guy.

I agree that other jobs that are much more favored should come first. Hell I love blue mage 20x more than I could ever even like necromancer. But consider this; If you gave every class in this game right now, a new job what would you give to a thaumaturge? And what I mean by this is giving more classes options in a party, because right now if you play thaumaturge and a party is looking for a healer for content your SOL. By expanding to something like this version of necromancer, the thaumaturge can opt to go with that job and easily find its way into content.

[Kinseykinz]

I do believe that Thm will 'spawn'...get it :-) a job-type that will heal and aid the party through self-sacrifice and-or dark magic abilities. However, I just can't see Necromancer being the outcome...Dark knight is just the more logical choice as a job option that fits the lore and basic skills you want from necromancer....minus the summoning of the dead.

Necromancer just seems like an epic boss we'd need to defeat...maybe a Thm gone bad. You're correct we need another party healing healing role and a 'sacrifice' healer does fit the bill...but that just seems to play more into Dark Knight than a SE necro. Redmage, if introduced might also carry some of the abilities you are hoping for.


Lastly, even if SE gave us necromancer, the idea you put forth in your OP while cool is way too over-powered. The necro you desire is really only suited to a single player game.

[AceofRains]

I do believe that Thm will 'spawn'...get it :-) a job-type that will heal and aid the party through self-sacrifice and-or dark magic abilities. However, I just can't see Necromancer being the outcome...Dark knight is just the more logical choice as a job option that fits the lore and basic skills you want from necromancer....minus the summoning of the dead.

Necromancer just seems like an epic boss we'd need to defeat...maybe a Thm gone bad. You're correct we need another party healing healing role and a 'sacrifice' healer does fit the bill...but that just seems to play more into Dark Knight than a SE necro. Redmage, if introduced might also carry some of the abilities you are hoping for.


Lastly, even if SE gave us necromancer, the idea you put forth in your OP while cool is way too over-powered. The necro you desire is really only suited to a single player game.

Thats a little out there, but its not far out there. Dark Knight is something I'm highly doubtful we will see comming from thaumaturge and most certainly not used for healing the party. BUT Dark Knight can function with strong life steal, something I meantioned earlier in the thread about using being a lancer using Life Surge, Necrogensis [with your choice of spell], Drain, Bloodbath from maruader, and A Blood Sword Skill.

I believe DRK would be awesome utilizing cross class abilities from Marauder and Thaumaturge, making it into a kind of offensive life steal tank.

I'd also like to question how the Necromancer I designed is overpowered? I'm sure balancing needs consideration in stats first before you can deem something overpowered. This design also has it's deficiencies so I'm actually pretty positive its not OP. Perhaps it was the perpetual Resurrection? I think that can be limited to only be activated either once every increment of minutes or only if you die while your 15 minute ability is active. That type of passive is actually something that exists in League of Legends on the champion Anivia, the cryophoenix. When she dies she reverts to an egg form and for a few seconds if the egg is not killed she will be Resurrected. Annoying for enemy players but its actually not game breaking.

I believe there's no reason to be limited in what a job can do to give it the right feel, I believe how ever restricting how it does these things is what gives balance to the job.

Nice pun btw :P

[Yrusama]

This or that game having or not having something isn't really much of an argument (But if you want to play that way, as the previous poster said, there isn't much precedent when a job only exists in not even a regular main series game, but rather a remake of one). To be blunt I think they'd be doing a lot more than one FF fan a great service by using another more famous job like blue mage, time mage, or dark knight.

The thing is Necromancers are generally evil in fantasy worlds, with the most notable exception being Diablo II, but even in that game world, most necromancers certainly are evil, only the one you happen to be able to play isn't (wholly) evil. This makes them not fit in very well in a game where you aren't really playing the bad guy.

Necro in FFV made some sense. It was sort of like a mix between BLU and SMN, where you learned to conjure monsters by encountering them, granting you summon-like spells.

When you really think about it, there is a bit of creepiness in the Job system itself. The souls of dead warriors inhabit crystals, waiting to be conjured so that you can... wear their clothes...(and gain their abilities, but that's beside the point). Literally in FFX-2, Yuna is wearing a dead person's soul. But all of this is done allegedly with the consent of the souls.

If Necromancer were to do anything in XIV (and that's a big "if", since SE is more interested in iconic FF jobs), I think it'd be interesting if they converted the soul energy of certain fallen enemies into crystals to be called later (similar to the Espers in VI). As long as they are consenting souls, though. Everyone should know that "no" means "no", even after death.

[Yrusama]

I agree that other jobs that are much more favored should come first. Hell I love blue mage 20x more than I could ever even like necromancer. But consider this; If you gave every class in this game right now, a new job what would you give to a thaumaturge? And what I mean by this is giving more classes options in a party, because right now if you play thaumaturge and a party is looking for a healer for content your SOL. By expanding to something like this version of necromancer, the thaumaturge can opt to go with that job and easily find its way into content.

I don't think Black Mage will ever stop being awesome unless it's blatantly nerfed. However, why not... *rummages through wiki pages*...AHA! Sage. Sage is usually unique to specific characters, but appeared as a playable job in FFIII and TA/TA2. It's known for using the strongest spells in the game, but I think to balance this SE could incorporate them as slow but powerful casters. They could be given non-elemental nukes like Ultima and Scathe, for the players that want to see BIG BOOMS!

They could also go with Red Mage. Give it access to Conjury and Thaumaturgy, give it some sort of chainspell or multi-cast ability, and it doesn't necessarily need a sword. I mean, apparently Archer doesn't need to be Ranger, so all bets are off for weapon types.

[Jinrya-Geki]

This or that game having or not having something isn't really much of an argument (But if you want to play that way, as the previous poster said, there isn't much precedent when a job only exists in not even a regular main series game, but rather a remake of one). To be blunt I think they'd be doing a lot more than one FF fan a great service by using another more famous job like blue mage, time mage, or dark knight.

The thing is Necromancers are generally evil in fantasy worlds, with the most notable exception being Diablo II, but even in that game world, most necromancers certainly are evil, only the one you happen to be able to play isn't (wholly) evil. This makes them not fit in very well in a game where you aren't really playing the bad guy.

In the amazing fantasy world of the Dresden files, there is a necromancer named Kumori who used her necrotic powers to keep a man from dying from bullet wounds. She kept his soul from leaving the body. She wanted to use necromancy to prolong life and keep the ones she loved alive.

[Wilan]

and lore-wise Necromancer fits perfectly

*leaves thread*

[Radacci]

Uhm, necro as a party-support-healer class seems very odd to me.
I don't think anyone but a madman would deal with necromancy, to heal people; you might as well just become a CNJ and heal people; But i suppose it's a regional thing, since Ul'dah/Limsa don't really have CNJ.
I'm pretty sure most people would find it repulsive for someone to dig up a corpse, blow it up, and heal you with necrotic energy. Would feel like having diseased corpse worms crawling around inside you, repairing your tissue with their saliva; you wouldn't be much of a welcome addition in any party...

[Andrien]

Uhm, necro as a party-support-healer class seems very odd to me.
I don't think anyone but a madman would deal with necromancy, to heal people; you might as well just become a CNJ and heal people; But i suppose it's a regional thing, since Ul'dah/Limsa don't really have CNJ.
I'm pretty sure most people would find it repulsive for someone to dig up a corpse, blow it up, and heal you with necrotic energy. Would feel like having diseased corpse worms crawling around inside you, repairing your tissue with their saliva; you wouldn't be much of a welcome addition in any party...

Were you around when THM had Sacrifice, and Resurrect? Isn't CNJ Raise the same thing like bringing someone dead back to life? The THM story has them digging up corpses and stealing from them, and back then THM was considered the preferred class of choice for healing before the reformation.

Who knows what will happen in ARR, and when/how those abilities will be reintroduce.

there is so much potential. There is a lot of spells unused on the THM list that fits perfectly with the necromancer lore behind it.

[Radacci]

Were you around when THM had Sacrifice, and Resurrect? Isn't CNJ Raise the same thing like bringing someone dead back to life? The THM story has them digging up corpses and stealing from them, and back then THM was considered the preferred class of choice for healing before the reformation.

Who knows what will happen in ARR, and when/how those abilities will be reintroduce.

I was playing in 1.0 beta. but didn't play THM then.
Sure, but would you rather be resurrected by blowing up a corpse, or holy magic? And i wouldn't mind if Raise was WHM spell rather than CNJ. Reviving people from the dead is supposed to be impossible, if i remember THM quest.
I look at it like, you don't actually *die* in-game, you just become incapacitated. Someone can be theoretically dead, but you can bring them back with surgery, and defibrillator; Raise is just a way to bring back someone who is close to dying. Lorewise there's no way to bring back the dead, short of necromancy, bringing people back as zombies. Otherwise it would be pretty convenient for CNJ to just revive all heroes, if they died from Bahamut.

I don't remember the details of THM quests, but i think it was just that Lal female that was crazy, and the THM guild didn't approve, and would have delt with her themselves, if we hadn't; so the graverobbing wasn't really a THM thing, just a crazy ass greedy Lal who thought she was doing people a service, by killing them; and making some personal profit from it.

There's a difference between *guiding the dead* to the afterlife, and defiling corpses; using them as tools. Most religions use some form of guiding the dead to the afterlife: that doesn't mean it has anything to do with necromancy, or healing. Though i guess you could see THM as some kind of shadow priests, that can heal also.
But there was 2 versions of THM in 1.0, and we'll see what happens in ARR, what we can make of it then
THM healing to some extent might make sense, but having some creepy necro as party healer would be a no-no. Realistically speaking everyone would be repulsed by it, except other necros i guess.