Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[finiteHP]

I personally like WHM having access to stone, aero, and water (it's shown in one of the alpha videos). Removing them would ruin the lore for CNJ. I find the powers of creation for WHM and powers of destruction for BLM are more interesting than WHM just being the power of light. WHMs have had some of these elements in a few of the previous games anyway. What I personally think should be done is make thunder, fire, and blizzard more useful (as you said) and give BLM access to stone, aero, and water as cross-class skills (assuming this system is still there) and also give them the ancient magic versions of all the elements.

[Altena]

Just to be an ass first:

Lol you want classic identies *looks at the classic Final Fantasy Bard and remembers how you said I was making no sense..*

Cool story bro.

(Also it makes the BLM not the magic nuker because if something weak to stone honestly WHM will do better- personally tested it lol).

But this point is valid. This is sort of where WHM steps on BLM's toes a little (15 min DH I am looking at you specifically).. But in saying that I don't think the offensive strength of WHM should decrease, but more of a sideways change into the light element rather then the raw elements (stone aero water).

I'd also love to see some more holy spells for WHM, dia, banish, and cure/raise being a nuke to undead

Yes, and demons. (ie Batraal etc). While limiting WHM's "strengths" list in regards to element to only undead / demons, you are also limiting the "weakness", so in actual fact WHM's nukes will have a much wider scale of being effective then a stand alone element would be. Meaning less resits / more consistent numbers.

Perhaps they can make class abilities that dont go to the job like stone and aero do not go to WHM as an offensive spell but BLM picks them up. Then WHM picks up two new nukes extra to his normal 5+ (You could do this to other jobs too (replace X ability for Y) where it makes sense and this would make having classes have two jobs be easier as well since you could just take a few and replace the ones that you dont want like aero -> dia, stone -> banish kind of thing).

Edit: that last thing could work for jobs duo but its also messy, just wanted to add I realize its messy :P

I don't really understand that last bit, maybe I am just not reading it correctly.

If WHM wants to use elemental nukes - then all they have to do is /job off, and they have access to the BLM elements.

I remember an old white magic spell called Zombie (iirc) which allowed healer to pretty much become a very effective single target damage dealer. Basically if Zombie landed on a mob it would gain an "undead" effect to which any healing spells cast on it could do pretty nasty damage. I miss these kind of spells, they were very creative and just made the job more interesting.

But yes, I would love to see a return of offensive type spells for WHM for that extra bit of versatility and survivability should the situation arise.

I think zombie has a high chance of being OP on bosses... Although ruling it out would be silly.

Look at old old FF games. WHM has aero, stone, tornado, and quake.

Hmm to be honest the only "old old" FF game I played was FF1, and I seem to remember BLM getting those spells.. I stand corrected at it being not part of the lore to give these spells to WHM.

I'm going to disagree with removing these spells from WHM only because I've seen WHM Nukes salvage a run when BLMs have died or when the party is running fluidly enough for the WHM to add a little DPS.

It wouldn't be removing WHM's offensive ability, it would simply be changing the name, changing the animation, changing the elemental affinity a tad, and then adding Aero/Water/Stone to BLM's spell list (removing some abilities perhaps to pave the way).

WHM would still get similarly potent spells to Aero/Stone (dia/banish if implemented correctly), and of course the ability to heal.

Giving BLM this skill set would improve the currently boring spell casting system, depending on creativity.. For example AM could have an additional effect of reducing enemy's resistance to a certain element, or chaining unresisted combo from Aero>Aeroa>Aeroga>Tornado could give some form of damage bonus...

As it stands the spellcasting system for BLM is incredibly boring (for most people). Simplifying the elements back onto BLM (as the lore allows it) would increase the "fun factor" of spellcasting on BLM, while not nerfing WHM's ability by giving them equally effective spells to counter what they lost.

[Altena]

Your trade is that Holy spells will do consistent damage across all elements with no elemental resistances or boosts being applicable. Elemental spells will still do decent damage, but shine even more when used against the appropriate element.

This exactly.

Your "strengths" will be greatly reduced
Along with your weaknesses.. So it balances out to be a more consistent spell..

The point in my OP was to make Dia/Banish equal in strength to Aero & Stone. WHM wouldn't lose any nuking power, just get a slight adjustment to elemental affinity.

[Altena]

I personally like WHM having access to stone, aero, and water (it's shown in one of the alpha videos). Removing them would ruin the lore for CNJ. I find the powers of creation for WHM and powers of destruction for BLM are more interesting than WHM just being the power of light.

That's a fair enough view / opinion..

Although the "elements of life" are also perception.

Water can cause death (drowning), along with tsunamis which are destructive..
Stone can crush things/quake tears holes in the ground that is pretty destructive.
Wind erodes rocks, and tornados/hurricanes/cyclones are pretty destructive.

Similarly Thunder creates electricity (electricity is life to mechanical things)
Fire creates heat and energy (creation).
Ice heals wounds.

So either way they can be looked at on both sides.. All elements are required for life, as well as destruction.

[Deronguerra]

I mean I'd be fine with giving Black Mage Stone/Aero/Water and White Mage having Banish/Scourge. Heck if Banish/Scourge did have the Debuff effect of Astral/Umbral down (like old Thaum had) then it would ACTUALLY help Black Mage with the Spell repetoire. But yeah, Spells all around are bad, atleast damaging spells are.

If Fire/Thunder/Blizzard lines for Black Mage were fixed, then I think we could all overlook Aero/Stone/Water on White Mage, even though we all mostly want White Mage focusing on healing. Even then I think the whole elemental wheel needs to be fixed period.

WHM stone is a full spectrum magic def down. Aero bleeds. Why Scourge and Banish??
Also, water or air spells are linked to healing. Stone is stone skin.
It's really not hard to make an /assist macro and toss a stone and aero. And all jobs have some kind of HP skill and regen is OP. lets give the whm something to do other than cure.

[Ricky]

Holy based spells would definitely be cool, I have a special attachment to Aero/Stone though.. I was nuke WHM for my Rivenroad (Hard) kill

[Altena]

Holy based spells would definitely be cool, I have a special attachment to Aero/Stone though.. I was nuke WHM for my Rivenroad (Hard) kill

I can understand that, I would much prefer to see the light based nukes though.. As I do feel we are missing this in the current version, and we likely won't see it (due to the restriction of having an action bar setup, along with having 3 elements already on the tree, and then on top of that WHM has to be able to heal / buff as well)..

[Klive]

In other FF, the white mage was a divine caster, powers from gods. FF14 WHM is a druid. No really, a druid. The source of the conjurer's spell is the elemental and nature. The WHM is one blessed by the elements.

Here:

Conjury calls upon the elements of earth, wind, and water and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings.

From: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/about/...magic/conjurer

The WHM, from what I remember from the job quests, are the chosen of the elements.

So in short the whole dia thing doesn't work for them this round. They are not priests, they are druids and elementalist. Yippy lore! As for the ancient magic, I'm sure they can add another job to the conjurer to have them.

[Altena]

WHM stone is a full spectrum magic def down. Aero bleeds. Why Scourge and Banish??
Also, water or air spells are linked to healing. Stone is stone skin.
It's really not hard to make an /assist macro and toss a stone and aero. And all jobs have some kind of HP skill and regen is OP. lets give the whm something to do other than cure.

The point is to give BLM more diversity, and options when a monster is strong against their current skillset, along with giving spell casting on BLM more variety and fun, without nerfing WHM's ability to aid in nuking.

[Altena]

In other FF, the white mage was a divine caster, powers from gods. FF14 WHM is a druid. No really, a druid. The source of the conjurer's spell is the elemental and nature. The WHM is one blessed by the elements.

Here:

Conjury calls upon the elements of earth, wind, and water and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings.

From: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/about/...magic/conjurer

The WHM, from what I remember from the job quests, are the chosen of the elements.

So in short the whole dia thing doesn't work for them this round. They are not priests, they are druids and elementalist. Yippy lore! As for the ancient magic, I'm sure they can add another job to the conjurer to have them.

It isn't all about WHM getting divine magic though... The issue we have is BLM only really having 3 options for spells, 1 of which is near useless and the other 2 are based on circumstance (fire for aoe, thunder for single target). This closes the gap on the elemental tree, which is pretty evident in every final fantasy game.

The lore could indeed be modified post-bahamut screwing everyone over.. Conjurers could turn to meditation of the divine (ie light), and THM could open their widths to the other elements that cause destruction (wind erodes, water drowns/floods, earth crushes/breaks).


Although this probably won't happen anyway.. Just wishful thinking.