Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Alaltus]

really... the class/job designs for cnj/whm and thm/blm are fine...... The only thing the ideas of this thread can achieve is an attempt to make WHM more like WHM from some other game.

It's fine that it's not the same. Some jobs change a lot from one game to the next.

Actually, they don't. Freeze is good, flare is good if you have the balls to get close enough, and the other fire spells are fine if you need AoE. Blizzara isnt super powerful but is very useful when you need instant damage.

They have their uses sure, but they are utility based. If it wasn't for them being elemental and taking up possible slots for more single target elemental nukes, it would be fine but because they are it extremely limits Black Mage's options. They can't take advantage of any weaknesses, they can't avoid hitting enemy resistances. Because the utility dictates the use of the spell rather than the weaknesses and resistances of the enemy. Which is why Thm/Blm needs their spells revised, they should still have the utility but it should not be tied to one singular element.

edit:

For example they could make fire/ra/ga/flare blizzard/ra/ga/freeze Thunder/ra/ga/burst all single target nukes and bring back toggle or something similar. But that toggle/ability halved the potency of the nukes themselves or increased the spells mp cost. Replace certain other utility effects with abilities/spells and then you pretty much have the best of both worlds.

[Kinseykinz]

They have their uses sure, but they are utility based. If it wasn't for them being elemental and taking up possible slots for more single target elemental nukes, it would be fine but because they are it extremely limits Black Mage's options. They can't take advantage of any weaknesses, they can't avoid hitting enemy resistances. Because the utility dictates the use of the spell rather than the weaknesses and resistances of the enemy. Which is why Thm/Blm needs their spells revised, they should still have the utility but it should not be tied to one singular element.

edit:

For example they could make fire/ra/ga/flare blizzard/ra/ga/freeze Thunder/ra/ga/burst all single target nukes and bring back toggle or something similar. But that toggle/ability halved the potency of the nukes themselves or increased the spells mp cost. Replace certain other utility effects with abilities/spells and then you pretty much have the best of both worlds.

Way earlier in the thread it was pointed out that the it appears from watching Alpha ARR gameplay that the 'debuff' effects were removed from CNJ/WHM's DD spells. It was also pointed out that all classes/jobs are getting reworked. It is fairly likely that Black Mages nukes will be stripped of some of their 'enfeebles' etc but upped in damage. SE had to add these effects in 1.0 because otherwise, we'd have no debuffer...but with the addition of Arcanist/Scholar to ARR, debuffs will fall to them. My point... Blizzard might actually be a spell tree that does more damage than it did in 1.0.