Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Reika]

No actually YOU don't get it. WHM isn't better Conjurer...it's different. White Mage serves a party role. I go out and solo/duo trio on my Conjurer all the time, because I don't NEED to be the 'healer specialist... But sure, for bosses, endgame PARTY play, I role WHM, and I'm an excellent one. But that doesn't prove your mis-guided point. Just because you WANT WHM to be 'advanced' Conjurer it doesn't make it so. By that logic, WHM is ALSO 'advanced Gladiator'.



Black mage is already an excellent DD. It is the most widely used, highest spike damage DD in the game (as it should be), giving it healing abilities on top of that would make it over-powered (which THM was back in the day). The problem people are having left and right in this topic is they are confusing 'boring' with 'weak'. Just because people don't think that casting the same spells over and over is fun, does not make the job 'weak' or 'broken'. Again, if you want it to be more dynamic, fine. Then come up with ideas to make it so, but taking spells from one mage and adding them to another won't 'fix' the 'but we only use one spell tree problem'.




Why does it need access to all elemental spells? Nothing in the lore, storyline etc makes blm the 'Elemental Superiority of XIV' it IS the 'Damage Mage' but Damage Mage doesn't mean 'Elemental' You are all making it that...not SE, not the lore.

Also, NO it would not have been fine. Conjurer IS a 'Druid' type of character... technically, they are the 'Elemental Mage' with a focus on nature and 'goodness' THM is NOT. THM however, is focused on destruction and the dark side of magic...which does lend towards the destructive 'nature' spells. So basically, by your logic, Conjurer should have unlocked BOTH black and White Mage. Once again, THM is the job that doesn't make sense....not CNJ.

Just because you FEEL like it should be something else, again, does not make it so. This all goes back to 'Conjurer is it's own stand alone class with it's own lore and feel...and to change this to what 'feels right' to you, they would have to completely rework, ALL the storylines and lore relating to Gridania, and the guilds within it...not to mention THM lore.

Lastly, they are reworking the Mages a little bit for ARR...not only that, I would bet money that while CNJ/WHM will keep the Stone/Aero spells they have now, Black Mage WILL gain access to Tornado, Quake and Flood as Ancient Magic when the time is right. (Level caps raised). As the Ancient Magics are being treated differently than the 'basic' elemental Magics.

No sorry, WHM is a better CNJ.... It can use every ability the CNJ has, and then some. Same with every other class->job in 1.0.....

[Kinseykinz]

No sorry, WHM is a better CNJ.... It can use every ability the CNJ has, and then some. Same with every other class->job in 1.0.....

Nope...wrong again.
Conjurer can equip conjurer spells PLUS spells from THM, and actions from roles like Gladiator, Pugilist and Archer....among others, creating a DDing mage that has some survivability and still some group heals. Sure, it doesn't DD like a Black Mage, but it can stand alone. However, it can only do this at the expense of being able to equip WHM abilities like Regen and having Benediction (among other restorative spells/skills)

White Mage is an excellent party healer. Regen alone makes it awesome. But it lacks the power (even with cleric's stance) to be an effective DD for very long. Not only that, most of it's dd spells, are typically cast to HELP the Black Mages and THM's do MORE damage. But White Mage gains these awesome group/individual heals and skills at the cost of DD flexibility. No longer can the slot skills from any class tree. No one invites a White Mage to a party for it's nuking potential...ever.

This is why one of my friends use to solo chocobo escort reasons as CNJ over WHM. He could complete the mission with decent scores by using his cross-class skills on CNJ he wouldn't have had access to on WHM. He did so well he earned that silly chocobo hat +all the company stuff he could buy WAY before people started spamming those missions and it was commonplace to see full groups out there.
But again, you can keep saying what you THINK should be true instead of what is ACTUALLY true.

[Reika]

Nope...wrong again.
Conjurer can equip conjurer spells PLUS spells from THM, and actions from roles like Gladiator, Pugilist and Archer....among others, creating a DDing mage that has some survivability and still some group heals. Sure, it doesn't DD like a Black Mage, but it can stand alone. However, it can only do this at the expense of being able to equip WHM abilities like Regen and having Benediction (among other restorative spells/skills)

White Mage is an excellent party healer. Regen alone makes it awesome. But it lacks the power (even with cleric's stance) to be an effective DD for very long. Not only that, most of it's dd spells, are typically cast to HELP the Black Mages and THM's do MORE damage. But White Mage gains these awesome group/individual heals and skills at the cost of DD flexibility. No longer can the slot skills from any class tree. No one invites a White Mage to a party for it's nuking potential...ever.

This is why one of my friends use to solo chocobo escort reasons as CNJ over WHM. He could complete the mission with decent scores by using his cross-class skills on CNJ he wouldn't have had access to on WHM. He did so well he earned that silly chocobo hat +all the company stuff he could buy WAY before people started spamming those missions and it was commonplace to see full groups out there.
But again, you can keep saying what you THINK should be true instead of what is ACTUALLY true.

That is still gimping yourself. you can have 5 low lvl skills more skills from this or that class, or you can have 5 better ways to keep yourself alive even solo. Regen > all solo. Saves you a lot of MP for hp recovery when your pretending to be a BLM...... in the end, the job skills are better than the low level class skills any day. WHM > CNJ.

[Orophin]

No actually YOU don't get it. WHM isn't better Conjurer...it's different.

No sorry, WHM is a better CNJ.... It can use every ability the CNJ has, and then some. Same with every other class->job in 1.0.....

Actually I agree with Reika on this one. Once I got Regen on WHM, I never looked back at CNJ. Sure, CNJ might outdamage WHM with Vanya Gear, but I can't be stopped with Regen and still do good damage.

[Reika]

Actually I agree with Reika on this one. Once I got Regen on WHM, I never looked back at CNJ. Sure, CNJ might outdamage WHM with Vanya Gear, but I can't be stopped with Regen and still do good damage.

Simply this, WHM has far more survivability than CNJ, and your damage doesnt even have any real noticable decrease. even without vanya gear, you can always trade out some AF pieces with Wind/earth mag potency ringbands with materia in them, a different helm so as not to decrease your attack m potency, and still do wonders in healing to yourself, with just regen.

If you actually picked CNJ over WHM after getting regen, well I'm sorry you made things so hard for yourself :/

[Lady]

No sorry, WHM is a better CNJ.... It can use every ability the CNJ has, and then some. Same with every other class->job in 1.0.....

But you could not longer use skills from other classes. So in that sense its arguable that CNJ was better.

[Reika]

But you could not longer use skills from other classes. So in that sense its arguable that CNJ was better.

Actually you could still use skills from Gladiator and Pugilist.... Each job had 2 other classes it could still take skills from. Having gladiator and pugilist alone meant you had sentinel for dmg reduction, featherfoot for a free evade + mp regain from it, second wind, the MP-less self heal....

and if you were really getting beat on, by golly benediction. Cant do that on CNJ.

and by golly if youre still sucking it, Repose and run away to fight another day.

[Lady]

Actually you could still use skills from Gladiator and Pugilist.... Each job had 2 other classes it could still take skills from. Having gladiator and pugilist alone meant you had sentinel for dmg reduction, featherfoot for a free evade + mp regain from it, second wind, the MP-less self heal....

and if you were really getting beat on, by golly benediction. Cant do that on CNJ.

and by golly if youre still sucking it, Repose and run away to fight another day.

While I agree with you, and I am appauled at my spelling skills. Someone could certainly argue that having skills from THM made CNJ > WHM... Its all a matter of opinion. I'm completely open to suggestions, and refuse to get caught up in the FFXI MO, that things are "only good a certain way and don't you dare argue".

[Reika]

While I agree with you, and I am appauled at my spelling skills. Someone could certainly argue that having skills from THM made CNJ > WHM... Its all a matter of opinion. I'm completely open to suggestions, and refuse to get caught up in the FFXI MO, that things are only good a certain way and don't you dare argue.

But the reason I think WHM should lose the ability to cast elemental magic is to make CNJ the better damager. If it continues like it has been, there is no reason to use the classes over the jobs.

CNJ certainly should be MUCH better than WHM at doing damage, however that cant happen when WHM can use all of its spells and abilities, and the measly low level spells you can take from THM that you cant even combo with really do not help CNJ do more damage. CNJ cant do the thunder-thundara combo, and it cant use thundaga. Its gimping yourself to even try. CNJ and other classes could see party roles, where CNJ is the one that kills the stone/aero/water weak monsters while BLM is the one that kills the thunder/fire/ice weak monsters, Or if the monsters really have no weakness you can just pick one, and WHM heals them all while they do it.

Only another overhaul of the system to totally make classes and their attached jobs different of can fix this. Waiting til the cap is lvl99 is unacceptible (someone mentioned that :/). Either they do that, or just get rid of classes. Make all the noobs start out as lvl 1 Paladins, Lvl1 White mages, Lvl 1 Dragoons. Thats pretty much what they handed us anyways.