Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Altena]

Well it was rude...

Stating a whm could solo with Banish is ridiculous. But again, I think this is another situation where someone wants FFXIV to be FFXI-2

Your response was also rude, as you did not read the OP and presumed you knew where the basis of this thread came from.

Aero & Stone would be replaced with 2 light spells of equal potency to Aero & Stone. The ability to solo would not change.

[Kinseykinz]

Eh people seemed to derail off the point once again so I gave up for a while there.

Alhanelem: My original suggestion wasn't to remove WHM's ability to be offensive, but to simply open up the spectrum of elemental affinity by giving WHM more consistent spells (that have low resistance), and giving BLM the full elemental wheel, to be able to take advantage of elemental weaknesses.

So a sideways trade for WHM, but an upgrade for BLM & the elemental affinity that is currently barely existent..

However this topic keeps going off on a strange & twisted tangent so I've pretty much given up on the thread.
Have fun chasing each other's tail !

So how exactly do you think the Elemental Wheel works in this game? I'm curious because your understanding of this+the actual game lore seems to be where you keep tripping over your sneakers.

[Altena]

so, remove elemental nukes that fall in line with WHM lore in FFXIV because WHM doesn't have them in other FF titles with different lore.

oooooookay

i'm starting to see a recurring theme of stalwart bias in these threads

People seem to really love this "lore" argument. Perhaps it's because it is the only thing holding that opinion together.

The game mechanics would be improved as a whole, by increasing the usefulness of elemental affinity.
Aero, Stone and Water spells would not be gimped as time goes on, due to the spells having to be gimped in order to keep in line with WHM's ability as a healer (and a DD). Thus also making elemental affinity more effective.
WHM's ability to deal damage would not decrease, in fact with less elemental affinity, their spell set would resist less against more mobs.
Giving BLM the other half of the elements (as the primary mage DD in the game currently), would increase their affinity spectrum, make the job less mind numbingly boring, and have next to no effect on WHM's ability as a healer and back up nuker.

Don't give me that CNJ rubbish either. The only time you will ever use CNJ is possibly when you are solo'ing. Even then, you lack an extremely nice WHM only buff - Regen.

[Altena]

So how exactly do you think the Elemental Wheel works in this game? I'm curious because your understanding of this+the actual game lore seems to be where you keep tripping over your sneakers.

It has been said a long time ago that the wheel was going back to Water puts out Fire, Fire melts Ice, etc etc.

The umbral/astral wheel was supposedly getting abolished.

Either way, you are still gimping 1 side of the wheel by giving the spells to a main healing class.

[Reika]

Well it was rude...

Stating a whm could solo with Banish is ridiculous. But again, I think this is another situation where someone wants FFXIV to be FFXI-2

Back in the day as in FFXIV prior to all the class changes. Were you around when THM had scourge and banish, and cnj had ALL of the element attack spells?

[Alaltus]

People seem to really love this "lore" argument. Perhaps it's because it is the only thing holding that opinion together.

The game mechanics would be improved as a whole, by increasing the usefulness of elemental affinity.
Aero, Stone and Water spells would not be gimped as time goes on, due to the spells having to be gimped in order to keep in line with WHM's ability as a healer (and a DD). Thus also making elemental affinity more effective.
WHM's ability to deal damage would not decrease, in fact with less elemental affinity, their spell set would resist less against more mobs.
Giving BLM the other half of the elements (as the primary mage DD in the game currently), would increase their affinity spectrum, make the job less mind numbingly boring, and have next to no effect on WHM's ability as a healer and back up nuker.

Don't give me that CNJ rubbish either. The only time you will ever use CNJ is possibly when you are solo'ing. Even then, you lack an extremely nice WHM only buff - Regen.

So Black Mage's elemental spells mechanic would improve if they have all the elements? No it just makes it more convenient, when you weild all the elements there will be less incidents where you have to consider how you will contribute in the party when the enemy has no weakness you can take advantage of. Having all the elements won't determine how fun Black Mage is, how SE design Black Mage will. I'd love a source on the changing of the elemental wheel haven't read that one if it's true.

[godagun]

I think what bothers me more is that blm doesn't have the whole elemental wheel at their disposal. Idc too much that whm gets stone and wind spells, but why cant blm cast them too? Idk what's going on in alpha but i hope that's one of changes the mages go through.

[Lady]

It has been said a long time ago that the wheel was going back to Water puts out Fire, Fire melts Ice, etc etc.

Where was this said? post please

[Altena]

Where was this said? post please

Ages ago. Early early days. Don't have a source for you.

"Supposedly" was the keyword in my last post. May not happen either.

*edit*

Tried to find it for you but couldn't. Could of been a game of chinese whispers, and probably just heard it from someone who heard it from someone. Eh, the current wheel is still lop sided either way.

[Kinseykinz]

It has been said a long time ago that the wheel was going back to Water puts out Fire, Fire melts Ice, etc etc.

The umbral/astral wheel was supposedly getting abolished.

Either way, you are still gimping 1 side of the wheel by giving the spells to a main healing class.

So even though you KNOW it's not a wheel, you're going to keep calling it that. And don't give me the 'but the blm needs the other triangle of spells thing' They don't. See, the in game lore you keep saying doesn't matter was divided into '2 magic schools' even before the mages were.

Your problem at the end of the day is that you wanna see green and brown colors shoot out of the Black Mages hands. Because that will some how make it magically work better. But the reality is, that will change nothing of it's function. If you think the role is broken (which honestly, it was one of the most effective DD's in 1.0 so I don't buy this) but fine, you think it's broken...then talk about how to fix it's actual functionality...not about the spells another mage can cast that you want...because it makes sense to you based on a game you once played...

Why DID blm supposedly only use 'Thunder chains' It had access to other spells...why were mages not using those. Maybe fix that first (again, it doesn't need fixed...I used basically every spell on my BLM bar, effectively...even the blizzard lines so I'm not sure why people think it was a 'Thunder' Mage)

Lastly, you are not getting the fact that Jobs aren't >Classes. Classes have their own uses and purposes. CNJ was not meant to be main healer...they can heal yes, but they can DD too. They are a hybrid, their damage and healing are balanced with their skillsets, but a CNJ will not outshine a THM or BLM on DD....even now. A THM with Wind or Earth equipment equipped can in fact, cast Stone and Aero for the same (if not occasionally better) Damage than CNJ. This is due to all the SKILLS THM gets like 'Enhanced Magic Potency' and 'Enhanced Magic Critical Potency' boosts. Not to mention timer skills like Excruciate and Dark Seal.

BLM vs WHM DD is even a greater disparity. Sure, once again WHM can cast the Stone>Aero line of spells. But if they want to DD effectively and at full power, they must 'Cleric Stance' and weaken their healing ability to do so. So once again...they are an excellent healer and modest DD...at best. But BLM with powers like 'convert' can do an amazing amount of DD. They typically out DD EVERYONE else in the party...and I most def. have never been in a party wherein the WHM out performed the BLM on damage....ever.

Which brings me back to 'Why do you need these 4 spells again?' Because you are bored? Well BLM can be tweaked to include different abilities functions if that is the case, but it doesn't NEED these 4 spells to fix that....not only that, even if you had Aero and Stone, you still would never cast them...you'd cast Thunder 80% of the time. Although if you expect stone to retain it's debuff (which it wouldn't if CNJ/WHM was no longer it's caster) then you'd do Stone>Thunder until stone drops>stone>thunder until stone drops.

Black mage IS a park and bark caster. Once a mobs weakness is discovered, you just cast the most effective spell over and over and over until you are the mob are dead. This won't change even ifyou have 100's of spells, you will still cast the 'most effective' spells. This game's go to 'effective' spell is Thunder-chaining...getting extra spells won't correct that. You'd be better off asking for mobs that change their elemental weaknesses then asking to 'fix' blm by 'screwing' WHM