Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Radacci]

Well yeah I want the BLM to have spells useful in any situation by ---following--- the elemental wheel. Now that we have like 90 slots we can have many more spells so SE can stop condensing the BLM into "aoe fire" "single target lightning" "debuff ice".

Because I dont want to be casting thunder for the rest of my BLM lifetime.

Unlike the WHM, BLM is only DD - so we shouldnt be talking like WHM needs to be on par with BLM. BLM needs to swamp WHM in DD- but everyone will cry if the BLM says "i'm going support" because WHM swamps BLM in support (which is already true lol). The BLM swamps WHM in a small average, and most obvious on thunder weak monsters but WHM can and will out damage a BLM on stone weak monsters lol.

What 90 slots are you talking about?
If BLM was superior DPS in every situation, it would make all other DPS classes obsolete; there were already cases in 1.0 where you just stack BLM. It was WAR and BLM, or gtfo -.- I certainly don't want that scenario in ARR.
But i agree, it was mostly just chaining lightning, or fire for AOE. But it wasn't actually much different for other classes. most had just 2-3 combos you use most of the time

[Shougun]

What 90 slots are you talking about?
If BLM was superior DPS in every situation, it would make all other DPS classes obsolete; there were already cases in 1.0 where you just stack BLM. It was WAR and BLM, or gtfo -.- I certainly don't want that scenario in ARR.
But i agree, it was mostly just chaining lightning, or fire for AOE. But it wasn't actually much different for other classes. most had just 2-3 combos you use most of the time

Lol I meant we get multiple bars and the bar itself is easier to manage. 1.0's was a pia.


So we can have two rows of abilities up at the same time.


BLM should always be superior to WHM in DPS. Except maybe for undead. I liked in the first page a suggestion to give WHM turn undead spell so they can nuke with their white magic - it wouldnt be as efficient right away as BLM since BLM wouldn't need to load up the buff but it could make WHM do good damage once loaded (making WHM feel like they have nice numbers (large numbers) but because of the magic buff needing to be applied would still make BLM superior since BLM would go straight to the dps like other dps classes )


Of course between DPS like classes BLM, DRG, and MNK they should be balanced.

[Radacci]

Lol I meant we get multiple bars and the bar itself is easier to manage. 1.0's was a pia.


So we can have two rows of abilities up at the same time.


BLM should always be superior to WHM in DPS. Except maybe for undead. I liked in the first page a suggestion to give WHM turn undead spell so they can nuke with their white magic - it wouldnt be as efficient right away as BLM since BLM wouldn't need to load up the buff but it could make WHM do good damage once loaded (making WHM feel like they have nice numbers (large numbers) but because of the magic buff needing to be applied would still make BLM superior since BLM would go straight to the dps like other dps classes )


Of course between DPS like classes BLM, DRG, and MNK they should be balanced.

I'm pretty sure i heard they are sticking with the 16 skills/class
I'm also pretty sure that BLM spells have higher potency than WHM, so the issue will fix itself.
Your suggestion would only make sense if there actually was any significant nr of undeads in the game, where such a mechanic would be useful; otherwise it would feel like a waste of skill slot. Would be fun with some undead FATE, where WHM is DPS instead of BLM

[Shougun]

I'm pretty sure i heard they are sticking with the 16 skills/class
I'm also pretty sure that BLM spells have higher potency than WHM, so the issue will fix itself.
Your suggestion would only make sense if there actually was any significant nr of undeads in the game, where such a mechanic would be useful; otherwise it would feel like a waste of skill slot. Would be fun with some undead FATE, where WHM is DPS instead of BLM

Oh the turn undead spell takes a NOT undead monster and makes them behave like they are undead ( I believe the effect is called "zombie"). Then the WHM can use cure and raise on them and slap them silly. Also funny to use on bosses that try to cure themselves XD


Yeah I really dont like having equal number of skills / job / class thing I dont care so long as each class and job has been made to play both fun and balanced. Like giving BLM an aoe version of all their spells or a spell like prism (turns spells aoe but for offense spells only) then so be it, it should happen.


Its lame fire got stuck to aoe, blizzard to debuff aoe and lightning to single target dps. Casting the same damn spells over again lol

[Radacci]

Oh the turn undead spell takes a NOT undead monster and makes them behave like they are undead ( I believe the effect is called "zombie"). Then the WHM can use cure and raise on them and slap them silly. Also funny to use on bosses that try to cure themselves XD

oh ok, and it would be quite annoying if mobs cast zombie on your party, and WHM whipes party with curaga
raise on mobs sounds excessive and OP

[Kinseykinz]

Lol I meant we get multiple bars and the bar itself is easier to manage. 1.0's was a pia.


So we can have two rows of abilities up at the same time.


BLM should always be superior to WHM in DPS. Except maybe for undead. I liked in the first page a suggestion to give WHM turn undead spell so they can nuke with their white magic - it wouldnt be as efficient right away as BLM since BLM wouldn't need to load up the buff but it could make WHM do good damage once loaded (making WHM feel like they have nice numbers (large numbers) but because of the magic buff needing to be applied would still make BLM superior since BLM would go straight to the dps like other dps classes )


Of course between DPS like classes BLM, DRG, and MNK they should be balanced.

Again, peoples main problem is they don't like how BLM plays...that's an entirely valid point...but butchering CNJ/WHM which IS working well and balanced at the moment, to achieve more dynamic Black Mage play is simply not going to happen...nor should it.

As to the 'BLM should always be superior to WHM in DPS except for maybe undead.' There would be people who find that unfair too. They would then want WHM's 'undead-killing' spells on Black Mage because, 'hey, it's unfair that White Mage has a decent damage dealing spell Black Mage could also enjoy.'

The main problem people are having is that they want this game's battle mechanics (at least spell mechanics) to match FFXI...this is not that game. Therefore, it IS okay and balanced for BLM to not carry all the spells...please point out what endgame content in 1.0 people could'nt use BLM's effectively in. Other jobs in this game have the same issue. I don't see monks whining that they are missing some of the elemental fists....again, we don't know what will happen in ARR or once level cap is raised, but at the moment, giving BLM access to ALL the elemental spells would either make BLM overpowered OR make the spells seem highly gimp...then people would complain that blm has lack-luster spells...

I've stated earlier why the spells are divided amongst the Mage-classes/jobs the way they are. If people are unhappy with blm flexibility, that is fair...but BLM's problems have nothing to do with WHM's graces. Ask for them to fix Black Mage...there are OTHER spells/abilities/mp costs/ cooldowns/etc BLM could use that would balance the roles out.

[Shougun]

Again, peoples main problem is they don't like how BLM plays...that's an entirely valid point...but butchering CNJ/WHM which IS working well and balanced at the moment, to achieve more dynamic Black Mage play is simply not going to happen...nor should it.

As to the 'BLM should always be superior to WHM in DPS except for maybe undead.' There would be people who find that unfair too. They would then want WHM's 'undead-killing' spells on Black Mage because, 'hey, it's unfair that White Mage has a decent damage dealing spell Black Mage could also enjoy.'

The main problem people are having is that they want this game's battle mechanics (at least spell mechanics) to match FFXI...this is not that game. Therefore, it IS okay and balanced for BLM to not carry all the spells...please point out what endgame content in 1.0 people could'nt use BLM's effectively in. Other jobs in this game have the same issue. I don't see monks whining that they are missing some of the elemental fists....again, we don't know what will happen in ARR or once level cap is raised, but at the moment, giving BLM access to ALL the elemental spells would either make BLM overpowered OR make the spells seem highly gimp...then people would complain that blm has lack-luster spells...

I've stated earlier why the spells are divided amongst the Mage-classes/jobs the way they are. If people are unhappy with blm flexibility, that is fair...but BLM's problems have nothing to do with WHM's graces. Ask for them to fix Black Mage...there are OTHER spells/abilities/mp costs/ cooldowns/etc BLM could use that would balance the roles out.

I dont really care if WHM keeps their elementals, or loses them (though I know the lore says CNJ has them so in that manor its not a good idea to remove it from CNJ). I dont repeat it every post but if you read all my posts you would know lol


I want to see stone and aero on black mage so we can see stone and aero weak bosses - and you can say you can have stone weak bosses and leave it to WHM, but I never want to see WHM be a "main nuker". That or they can give THM all his healing abilities back, maybe they did..


Of course right now bosses are rather elemental ambivalent as you can cast thunder on everything lol.

[schism]

Yea thm/blm is super boring casting thunder on everything. Hopefully they add more elemental lore.

I dont really care if WHM keeps their elementals, or loses them (though I know the lore says CNJ has them so in that manor its not a good idea to remove it from CNJ). I dont repeat it every post but if you read all my posts you would know lol


I want to see stone and aero on black mage so we can see stone and aero weak bosses - and you can say you can have stone weak bosses and leave it to WHM, but I never want to see WHM be a "main nuker". That or they can give THM all his healing abilities back, maybe they did..


Of course right now bosses are rather elemental ambivalent as you can cast thunder on everything lol.

[stanleyyoung]

what im getting tired of in this thread and others like it is the fact that ppl want carbon copy jobs form xi, and this is pretty much a well known fact and is true. What i see at the core of all the grief about the jobs in 14 is that ppl have in their minds that "XI invented the jobs along with setting the standard in how they should be/play and set the tradition too". There is nothing wrong with using XI as reference or even a base but SE keeping to traditional looking at the entire series for a start with designing jobs but also trying to be innovative and change things up a little is good and personally i like it.

We all see the fiasco with blm and whm with the spells they should/shouldn't have or how they are supposed to be which mainly comes from that fact that they aren't exactly like XI. To add look at the grief about the current bard we have in 14, you can see thread after thread about how it needs or needs not to be. I actually like how whm can primarily heal but do some dps with the element spells it has or how bard can support but do some dps. Its nice to see that a whm not only keeps the party alive but sometimes there are cases like you guys pointed out that whm was a saving grace since it could deal dmg with the elements.

We have this problem that ppl can't let go of XI and aren't open to any new changes or ideas for jobs in 14 unless they are exact replicas of XI but not everyone is like that. Just look at the thread made not to long ago about ninja with the dog idea, you saw how ppl said fuck it that idea is dumb keep ninja like XI or that will not work so don't change my ninja, how dare SE even think about doing that, or that's not tradition so get the hell out of here with the ninja & dog idea.

You guys think we have a problem now with the whm, blm & brd situation how bad will it get when say samurai finally gets added and it does not play 100% the same from XI. There will be riots all over if sam isn't exactly like XI, lets add to that with rdm if it isn't carbon copy from XI then there will be hell to pay. And it doesn't take much for this to occur any slight change or variation in the jobs for 14 that are different from XI then we will have ppl gathering together at running about crazy with their pitch forks and torches.

The list goes on & on with jobs being added and until we as a community can break from the thinking "XI invented the jobs along with setting the standard in how they should be/play and set the tradition too". At that point when we break away from that thinking we can then have a good game with cool jobs that have core traditions but having neat and new cool stuff also which will make 14 a good game.

[dbrewer225]

Stanley you have hit the nail on the head. everything you just said is basically what alot of people are complaining about. I agree with you that ff14 needs its own identity instead of it being ff11 v.2. People need to adjust to new ideas and innovations. If people dont like ff14 being ff11 then go play ff11. Again, people need to adjust to the changes or be left behind. Case in point, yoshi and the team know what they are doing. Its amazing that any other MMO out there dont consider player feedback, and this is the first MMO that acually kept its word. So everybody, shut it up and let go of the ff11 mentality, cause its getting old. Lol watch this im gonna get flamed for speaking my thought, but geez man the compalaints on this game is OVER 9000.