Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[AdvancedWind]

So you want to make Black Mages more faithful to classic games by giving them spells from all elements, something that is *not* a traditional Black Mage feature? kay

[Klive]

So you want to make Black Mages more faithful to classic games by giving them spells from all elements, something that is *not* a traditional Black Mage feature? kay

This guys gets it. Quoted for truth.

[Alhanelem]

This guys gets it. Quoted for truth.

Fact is historically BLMs only used fire thunder and ice- which is what XIV BLMs use. Other jobs got aero stone and water. You my sir are a winner.

[Exn]

So you want to make Black Mages more faithful to classic games by giving them spells from all elements, something that is *not* a traditional Black Mage feature? kay

*All* elements is a stretch.. but having the most control over the basic elemental wheel is traditionally always given to Black Mages. That post you linked.. I can't believe so many ppl fell for that as if that supported your argument AT ALL. One of your 'points' you name one game out the entire series and call that a tradition? And 3 outta 5 of your other 'points' actually support Altena's arguement.. And then the 1st point is just wrong ( which you admint you didn't do thorough research..). So.. uh.. kay?

[AdvancedWind]

*All* elements is a stretch.. but having the most control over the basic elemental wheel is traditionally always given to Black Mages. That post you linked.. I can't believe so many ppl fell for that as if that supported your argument AT ALL. One of your 'points' you name one game out the entire series and call that a tradition? And 3 outta 5 of your other 'points' actually support Altena's arguement.. And then the 1st point is just wrong ( which you admint you didn't do thorough research..). So.. uh.. kay?

So I actually did my research once again. Listing games with defined job system.

Final Fantasy I Black Magic: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/M...29#Black_Magic (Quake is here, but it's techinically an instant kill move, non-elemental)

Final Fantasy III Black Magic: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C...II_Black_Magic (FTI + Quake now a proper earth elemental spells)

Final Fantasy V Black Magic

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C..._V_Black_Magic (Fire, Thunder, Ice onry)

Final Fantasy Tactics Black Mage , Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Black Mage, Final Fantasy Tactics A2 Black Mage

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B..._%28Tactics%29

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B...ics_Advance%29

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B...8Tactics_A2%29

(Fire, Thunder, Ice onry)

And now games without a defined job system

Final Fantasy II Black Magic: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C...II_Black_Magic (Fire, Thunder, Ice onry)

FFIV: Palom and Porom do learn Quake as black magic.

FFVII. FFVIII: Has no "black magic" definition

FFIX: Party black mage learns Fire, thunder, ice and one water spell

FFX: Fire, Ice, Water and Thunder are Black magic

FFXI+: Entire elemental wheel is considered black magic

You miiight have a bit of a point with quake since it was on I and III, but not the full elemental wheel. FFXI is the only job system FF game in which black mage has access to all elements. Only after XI that games really started considering all elemental magic as black magic

I gotta leave work, else I'd actually check black mage movesets in the chocobo spin off games.

[Exn]

You miiight have a bit of a point with quake since it was on I and III, but not the full elemental wheel. FFXI is the only job system FF game in which black mage has access to all elements. Only after XI that games really started considering all elemental magic as black magic

You didn't need to go and start looking it up again, as it was already taken care of earlier in this thread. I appreciate your fervor though. Again, I didn't say BLM has the full elemental wheel, just that it always had the most control of the elemental wheel, in comparison to the other classes of a particular title.

In relation to XIV, I don't really care too much as the entire battle system was redesigned to accomodate this change. Really, I preferred the older 1.0 battle system, before mages lost half their spell set, but that is long gone now. Though, BLM definetly could still use some work to make it a more exciting and dynamic job to play.

[Mychael]

So I actually did my research once again. Listing games with defined job system.

Final Fantasy I Black Magic: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/M...29#Black_Magic (Quake is here, but it's techinically an instant kill move, non-elemental)

Final Fantasy III Black Magic: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C...II_Black_Magic (FTI + Quake now a proper earth elemental spells)

Final Fantasy V Black Magic

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C..._V_Black_Magic (Fire, Thunder, Ice onry)

Final Fantasy Tactics Black Mage , Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Black Mage, Final Fantasy Tactics A2 Black Mage

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B..._%28Tactics%29

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B...ics_Advance%29

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B...8Tactics_A2%29

(Fire, Thunder, Ice onry)

And now games without a defined job system

Final Fantasy II Black Magic: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C...II_Black_Magic (Fire, Thunder, Ice onry)

FFIV: Palom and Porom do learn Quake as black magic.

FFVII. FFVIII: Has no "black magic" definition

FFIX: Party black mage learns Fire, thunder, ice and one water spell

FFX: Fire, Ice, Water and Thunder are Black magic

FFXI+: Entire elemental wheel is considered black magic

You miiight have a bit of a point with quake since it was on I and III, but not the full elemental wheel. FFXI is the only job system FF game in which black mage has access to all elements. Only after XI that games really started considering all elemental magic as black magic

I gotta leave work, else I'd actually check black mage movesets in the chocobo spin off games.

That looks oddly familiar...

FF1: Quake attempts to instantly kill an enemy by swallowing them into the ground.
It is not an earth elemental spell.

FF3: Quake is a Level 7 Black Magic spell that causes major Earth-elemental damage. Only the Jobs Black Mage, Magus, Sage, and Onion Knight can use this spell. It can be bought in Doga's Village and in the Invincible.
It is not exclusive to BLM, though it is black magic in FF3.

FF4: In this version it is a non-elemental spell that damages all non-flying enemies and ignores Reflect.
Non-elemental

FF6,FF7, FF8--Quake is an earth elemental spell, but is not really attributed to a "class."

FF11: The only game where Black Mage exclusively receives Quake as an earth elemental spell.

FF13: Is not a spell, but a technique (that does deal earth elemental damage) learned by pretty much every character, in different roles of the crystarium.

FF Tactics: Quake is Planar Magic.

Crystal Chronicles RoF: Quake = piling Fire, Thunder, Cure, and Clear. It inflicts stun on the enemy

Crystal Chronicles EoT: A pillar of rock erupts from beneath the enemy, sending it flying into the air and inflicting a stun effect after landing.

See the trend?

Googling and reading FF wiki might not be the best way to argue.

This thread is back in the same place it was 150 posts ago. -_- Can we kill it already?

[dbrewer225]

MY GOD CAN THIS THREAD DIE ALREADY. LOOK YOSHI IS NOT CHANGING NOTHING TO CNJ/WHM. AS IN THE STORY AND LORE IN FF14, YES PEOPLE THIS OS FINAL FANTASY 14 NOT FF11, THE LORE SUPPORTS CNJ HAVING THESE SPELLS. SO PLEASE LEAVE THIS ALONE. MAYBE DOWN THE LINE WHM WILL HAVE ACCESS TO OTHER LIGHT BASED SPELLS. and im donr venting lol, sorry got laid off at work so im angry lol.

[Lady]

LOOK YOSHI IS NOT CHANGING NOTHING TO CNJ/WHM.

I'll ignore your caps lock, but tsk tsk tsk that is a double negative.

[Zantetsuken]

I prefer this fix: Individual JOB restrictions/licenses on cross-class abilities and spells.

How it works now:

BLM can use all THM skills as well as all shareable class skills from both PGL and ARC.
WHM can use all CNJ skills as well as all shareable class skills from both GLD and PGL.

How it might work with individual job skill restrictions/licenses:

BLM gains access to all THM skills except Necrogenesis and Parsimony. - Can equip: Aero(ra), Water(ra), and Stone(ra), Decoy, Chameleon, Second Wind, and Stoneskin.

WHM gains access to all CNJ skills except Aero(ra), Water(ra), and Stone(ra). - Can equip: Resonance, Sanguine Rite, Outmaneuver, Sentinel, Tempered Will, Chameleon, Featherfoot, and Second Wind.


An approach like this would have several benefits over the current system:

• Easier to Balance - Future class skills and spells could be given permissions only to certain jobs, therefore making the sheer volume of balancing much less.
• Allows for greater distinctions between jobs and classes than currently exists. No longer is WHM just a CNJ++. Restricting CNJ elemental spells to only other Classes (or BLM), allows WHM to be a focused party healer, with a larger menu of healing support skills to choose from.
• Allows for broad expansion of current Jobs when new classes are released.

There are drawbacks as well though:

• Maxing a current Job requires only 2 sub-classes be leveled. Under this system, that number could go up to 4-5.
• Some players may be annoyed with the fact that they need to level GLD to 40+ just to play their WHM properly.