Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Alaltus]

Not at all, but what I mean is it would allow more freedom in battle mechanics. To simply have a couple of elements that are strong, a couple of elements that are circumstantially strong, and a couple of elements that are utility, restricts us to being able to use the elemental chain. Locking the elements to one design (damage/circumstantial/utility) is developing the system into a corner.

There will always be mobs strong to magic, weak to melee (look at Flans as an example), and as long as there is a reasonable balance there - then it is ok. Currently though, there are mobs that are weak to elements that are tied with weak spells.

The issue is though, that if Black Mage can have optimal output in just about every element in the game it restricts SE's options to control their damage output without adversely effecting other magic damage jobs/classes. If they have to give enemies high magic damage resistance for example, that doesn't only effect Black Mage that effects all the other mage jobs. Black Mage traditionally is more powerful than the other Mage Jobs as well so they might still be able to pull off acceptable damage where a weaker mage would not. Where as a primary Fire/Ice/Thunder Black Mage can be specifically limited by giving an enemy high fire, ice and lightning resistance. Which would have a smaller effect on other magic damage dealers depending on how they are designed.

It's all hypothetical but i think that was the point trying to be put across.

[Bowen]

This won't fix the wheel, though. Giving all the elemental spells to the already OP BLM will not fix anything.

[Altena]

This won't fix the wheel, though. Giving all the elemental spells to the already OP BLM will not fix anything.

I understand the argument that "opening up all spells on BLM won't effect BLM's gameplay all that much" or only slightly make it less boring, but balancing all elemental spells to the same potency and number of spells, simplifying them on a single class that can make use of them, I believe it would improve the use of elemental affinity significantly to what it currently is.

At the moment we have 2 out of 6 spells that have 3-combo chains with a decent amount of potency.
- Fire & Thunder
4 out of 6 are either not usable in the elemental chain, or are limited by the class in which has them.
- Aero & Stone has 2 spells each, mainly based on utility rather then damage, with the inability to really go much further then that in the future patches (due to the job that is associated with them, in my opinion).
- Water, we all know that issue. NDA is also present here.
- Blizzard has 2 spells, both of which are more for utility as opposed to damage.

So at the moment the chain is extremely lop sided. Giving one job, all 6 elements, with 3 spells for each line would improve elemental affinity, yes.

If you don't agree that it would improve the use of affinity, how do you propose it to be improved and turned into an actual mechanic?

It it also the class from the view of a new player learning conjurer. Classes are meant for solo play and you are making it more dependant on other classes(or players) for battles.

Specifically, no.

Replacing Aero/Stone with Light based nukes would have no true battle mechanic effect. CNJ's would still be able to solo the same as they would with Aero/Stone..

Think of it as changing the animation from green wind & brown rock to beams/balls of light. The potency, utility and purpose would remain.

I would be completely fine with WHM having "Aero and Stone" based spells, then giving BLM 3 seperate spells associated with those elements to balance the chain, however unfortunately changing WHM to a Divine based nuker seems to be the cleanest way in my opinion.

[AdorraEloom]

Both sides have good points, but we are all missing one key factor here, we don't really know what has become of a blm in ARR yet, they have revamped many abilities/spells in ARR, as far as we know, BLM could very well have Quake/Tornado in ARR instead of basic Earth/Aero spell which a conj/whm gets.

As far as we know summoner could get basic thunder/fire spells (dot version) and BLM would just get all the big Ancient magic spells. Hard to assume ATM with out having all the info on blm yet.

[Altena]

Both sides have good points, but we are all missing one key factor here, we don't really know what has become of a blm in ARR yet, they have revamped many abilities/spells in ARR, as far as we know, BLM could very well have Quake/Tornado in ARR instead of basic Earth/Aero spell which a conj/whm gets.

As far as we know summoner could get basic thunder/fire spells (dot version) and BLM would just get all the big Ancient magic spells. Hard to assume ATM with out having all the info on blm yet.

Yes this is true, and speculation is the worst nightmare for this kind of stuff.

If Arcanist in fact has fairly equal power to BLM, but with Wind/Stone/Water, then the elemental issue is done and dusted.

Yoshi has said in a live letter that all classes have been changed / have planned changes - and mentioned MNK being quite an extensive change, but yes we have heard absolutely nothing about BLM. I do fear that silence = not much change... Although it could mean the complete opposite.

Like I said, speculation is the devil.

[kazaran]

Black mage and in some cases arcanist should have higher rotations. When resisted in case of dark, dead ect, that where whm is needed in multiple role.

I wouldn't mind WHM having spells to weaken a mob to elemental magic, or malee damage. So they can focus on healing, defense and breaking defense of the enemy.

[Kallera]

Black mage and in some cases arcanist should have higher rotations. When resisted in case of dark, dead ect, that where whm is needed in multiple role.

I wouldn't mind WHM having spells to weaken a mob to elemental magic, or malee damage. So they can focus on healing, defense and breaking defense of the enemy.

From the Main Final Fantasy XIV page:

Conjury calls upon the elements of earth, wind, and water and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings. A wand or cane made from unworked wood is then utilized to focus the aether until it manifests as the desired spell.

Conjurer's domain is based in nature. They are not restricted to light for their magic, nor should they be effectively neutered from offensive magic because of what those who chose conjurer /might/ become.

TLDR: Conjurers have a right to self defense.

[Reika]

From the Main Final Fantasy XIV page:

Conjurer's domain is based in nature. They are not restricted to light for their magic, nor should they be effectively neutered from offensive magic because of what those who chose conjurer /might/ become.

TLDR: Conjurers have a right to self defense.

And then you look on the page for WHM and it says nothing about conjory, but all about delivering their allies from the hands of death.

[whoopeeragon]

And then you look on the page for WHM and it says nothing about conjory, but all about delivering their allies from the hands of death.

From the page:

Although the art subsequently became forbidden, it is now in the midst of a revival at the hands of the Padjal, chosen of the elementals.

Note that it was chosen by the elementals, not by the divine or the raptured. By the ELEMENTALS.

[Radacci]

@Altana: i don't see how replacing elemental skills for CNJ gonna do anything. If you change them to light spells instead and make mobs weak to that, you'd make cactuars weak to astral instead?
CNJ uses elemental spells, WHM come from CNJ, so why should they suddenly stop using elemental spells, just cause they are focused more on healing? Unless they make up some new caster class, to base WHM of, then it's what it is.

Why should they rewrite the entire lore around CNJ/WHM just to prevent WHM from using Stone/Aero? that's to much job for a small technicality, that shouldn't even matter.
WHM has it's 5 skills, so what skills would you replace, to give WHM some astral nukes? Or what logic would you use to *convert* aero/stone/water to astral spells? or why should they rework entire CNJ class?
You don't seem to think it's an issue to change the entire concept of CNJ to become astral caster, to fit WHM lore. but yet you think it's a lore issue that WHM can use elemental skills, and that shouldn't be changed? You're a bit contradicting on this point.

Maybe they should just split up CNJ into 2 classes; one elementalist, and one heal/buff/astral; basing WHM of the healer, and geomancer of the elementalist, and make THM/BLM umbral instead. that would fix the whole issue with element skills being split between CNJ and BLM; and WHM would't have to use elemental skills.