Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[fusional]

so, remove elemental nukes that fall in line with WHM lore in FFXIV because WHM doesn't have them in other FF titles with different lore.

oooooookay

i'm starting to see a recurring theme of stalwart bias in these threads

[Altena]

so, remove elemental nukes that fall in line with WHM lore in FFXIV because WHM doesn't have them in other FF titles with different lore.

oooooookay

i'm starting to see a recurring theme of stalwart bias in these threads

People seem to really love this "lore" argument. Perhaps it's because it is the only thing holding that opinion together.

The game mechanics would be improved as a whole, by increasing the usefulness of elemental affinity.
Aero, Stone and Water spells would not be gimped as time goes on, due to the spells having to be gimped in order to keep in line with WHM's ability as a healer (and a DD). Thus also making elemental affinity more effective.
WHM's ability to deal damage would not decrease, in fact with less elemental affinity, their spell set would resist less against more mobs.
Giving BLM the other half of the elements (as the primary mage DD in the game currently), would increase their affinity spectrum, make the job less mind numbingly boring, and have next to no effect on WHM's ability as a healer and back up nuker.

Don't give me that CNJ rubbish either. The only time you will ever use CNJ is possibly when you are solo'ing. Even then, you lack an extremely nice WHM only buff - Regen.

[Alaltus]

People seem to really love this "lore" argument. Perhaps it's because it is the only thing holding that opinion together.

The game mechanics would be improved as a whole, by increasing the usefulness of elemental affinity.
Aero, Stone and Water spells would not be gimped as time goes on, due to the spells having to be gimped in order to keep in line with WHM's ability as a healer (and a DD). Thus also making elemental affinity more effective.
WHM's ability to deal damage would not decrease, in fact with less elemental affinity, their spell set would resist less against more mobs.
Giving BLM the other half of the elements (as the primary mage DD in the game currently), would increase their affinity spectrum, make the job less mind numbingly boring, and have next to no effect on WHM's ability as a healer and back up nuker.

Don't give me that CNJ rubbish either. The only time you will ever use CNJ is possibly when you are solo'ing. Even then, you lack an extremely nice WHM only buff - Regen.

So Black Mage's elemental spells mechanic would improve if they have all the elements? No it just makes it more convenient, when you weild all the elements there will be less incidents where you have to consider how you will contribute in the party when the enemy has no weakness you can take advantage of. Having all the elements won't determine how fun Black Mage is, how SE design Black Mage will. I'd love a source on the changing of the elemental wheel haven't read that one if it's true.

[godagun]

I think what bothers me more is that blm doesn't have the whole elemental wheel at their disposal. Idc too much that whm gets stone and wind spells, but why cant blm cast them too? Idk what's going on in alpha but i hope that's one of changes the mages go through.

[Orophin]

Seems like they're taking on an old school approach to magic. (no surprise considering all the FF3 references)

BLM traditionally only had access to Fire, Ice and Lightning, whereas later WHM got Aero. WHM needs the ability to solo, so that's why they have to have some damage dealing spells. I'd just really like to see BLM get some more variety in their spells. in FF4, Rydia had the three elements plus a lot of other spells, such as Bio, Quake and Flare. It'd be nice to see some of those spells come back.

[Shougun]

A. WHM / CNJ can out damage DD BLM on stone weak monsters (wish I had a parser back when my friend and I were testing). On normal monsters WHM is only a little behind its nothing like watching a Fisher try to out damage a class - having all the survival skills greatly helps the WHM in comparison though. Difference between CNJ DD and WHM DD is just RNG.

B. WHM has GLD and PUG the only two sub classes you really need - you cant combo with THM's elemental skills anyways so unless you are trying to fight frogs or something just stick with stone and aero.

C. WHM absorbs all of CNJ skills


A+B+C WHM > CNJ

If you need DD gear you can just materia it, just like the BLM does.

[Kinseykinz]

A. WHM / CNJ can out damage DD BLM on stone weak monsters (wish I had a parser back when my friend and I were testing). On normal monsters WHM is only a little behind its nothing like watching a Fisher try to out damage a class - having all the survival skills greatly helps the WHM in comparison though. Difference between CNJ DD and WHM DD is just RNG.

B. WHM has GLD and PUG the only two sub classes you really need - you cant combo with THM's elemental skills anyways so unless you are trying to fight frogs or something just stick with stone and aero.

C. WHM absorbs all of CNJ skills


A+B+C WHM > CNJ

If you need DD gear you can just materia it, just like the BLM does.

If this were in fact true, please explain why people DID NOT stack White Mages or Conjurers to do most endgame content but DID stack Black Mages for a fair bit of it. And all you are all proving is that you don't know how to use classes well. Did it ever occur to you that there are times when you don't even need regen to heal? That Stoneskin and and Second Wind and Sentinel (abilities a THM can use as well by the way) are more than enough to keep you happy and healthy, and in these situations (albeit not typical party play) CNJ is a better choice than WHM). In these cases, you can gain more damage output with CNJ over WHM. Period.

It is not my fault you all can't see the pros of using the base classes over jobs nor that you all can't have the foresight to see that while there isn't an enormous difference between base classes and jobs at the moment, the ability to use skills from all the classes on another class still does occasionally, especially for soloing and light parties, trump the job. As we gain levels post 50, the differences will of course, be much more severe...but that will take a level cap raise and other in game changes for you all to see. Again, sorry most of you are shortsighted or impatient.

[Radacci]

It is not my fault you all can't see the pros of using the base classes over jobs nor that you all can't have the foresight to see that while there isn't an enormous difference between base classes and jobs at the moment, the ability to use skills from all the classes on another class still does occasionally, especially for soloing and light parties, trump the job. As we gain levels post 50, the differences will of course, be much more severe...but that will take a level cap raise and other in game changes for you all to see. Again, sorry most of you are shortsighted or impatient.

the point is that classes are supposed to be generic, and more solo-centric, while jobs are for party.

[Shougun]

If this were in fact true, please explain why people DID NOT stack White Mages or Conjurers to do most endgame content but DID stack Black Mages for a fair bit of it. And all you are all proving is that you don't know how to use classes well. Did it ever occur to you that there are times when you don't even need regen to heal? That Stoneskin and and Second Wind and Sentinel (abilities a THM can use as well by the way) are more than enough to keep you happy and healthy, and in these situations (albeit not typical party play) CNJ is a better choice than WHM). In these cases, you can gain more damage output with CNJ over WHM. Period.

It is not my fault you all can't see the pros of using the base classes over jobs nor that you all can't have the foresight to see that while there isn't an enormous difference between base classes and jobs at the moment, the ability to use skills from all the classes on another class still does occasionally, especially for soloing and light parties, trump the job. As we gain levels post 50, the differences will of course, be much more severe...but that will take a level cap raise and other in game changes for you all to see. Again, sorry most of you are shortsighted or impatient.

I dont know if you refused to read and rather just respond with rebutal but I said monsters weak to stone.

People wont stack a WHM for DD because EG monsters (bosses being the most important) are not weak to stone - in fact for the most part they don't care what you cast on them.

I wager most of that is because the wheel is all screwed up. However crap in the normal day to day can be weak to stone and you can tell. Just like casting thunder on a frog - its just loltastic. If SE wants to fix the wheel then WHM cannot be main DDing stone/aero weak monsters that will just be fked up.

Also WHM is better then CNJ its amazing to see "resonance" and "chameleon" as an excuse why they outclass a WHM with its 5 golden abilities. I don't care if you can do a back pentaflip when it snows, clear sky, moon is out, and Dalamud is falling. On average WHM > CNJ, and since I don't think we were referring to the blue-moon, WHM > CNJ.

If you want thunder go THM and pick up CNJ spells, the combo on THM will be far Superior to a CNJ with one of the lightnings.

Unless you are trying to do something very very specific for the scenario WHM is better. Also stop referencing GLD and PUG skills like you need CNJ for it. WHM picks up those two classes.

[Klive]

If this were in fact true, please explain why people DID NOT stack White Mages or Conjurers to do most endgame content but DID stack Black Mages for a fair bit of it. And all you are all proving is that you don't know how to use classes well. Did it ever occur to you that there are times when you don't even need regen to heal? That Stoneskin and and Second Wind and Sentinel (abilities a THM can use as well by the way) are more than enough to keep you happy and healthy, and in these situations (albeit not typical party play) CNJ is a better choice than WHM). In these cases, you can gain more damage output with CNJ over WHM. Period.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d_RKPMks6w

Stacked WHMs on moogle, 8 min kill.