Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[fusional]

oh, i get it. you're confusing difficulty/depth with strength/potential.

then just to be clear- being so easy you can headbutt your keyboard to do fair DPS doesn't mean the class is weak. they're two completely different things.

and anyway, i refer you back to my "you realize...?" post on page 14 in answer to BLM lacking depth.

[Reika]

WHM only has heals, buffs and Holy. the rest is from...CNJ!
BLM only has Element skills, and sleep, convert. the rest is from THM!
The problem is that Jobs have to few skills, and rely on other classes.

The error here is that THM is the one with fire ice and lightning magic (tho it shouldn't be that way) and BLM only really learns the ancient magic. The heals are mainly fron CNJ, and WHM only lears Regen and benediction. Jobs learning only 5 more skills was one of the major errors in 1.0. You cant majorly separate the class from the job with 5 measly skills, and no new traits. I think if the Job portion was avaliable by at a lower level, such as 20, and jobs had their own skills spells and traits that were avaliable at level up, while the class had different ones, the system would have been a lot better and the class other than THM wouldn't have become un-used and unimportant.

A THM would still have scourge, poison, and bio - basically what it use to have. if you switch to the job at level 20, some of those become unusable and instead, the first elemental spell you learn at lvl 20 becomes usable, then another one at 22 and another one at 24 - in perfect time for the lvl25 dungeon.

Or, you can stay as THM and continue to use dark spells, as well as still have the sacrifical heal spells and ressurect usable. Now THM and BLM are totally different, and one doesnt simply replace the other. They would have different traits, different spells, different playstyle. I would like to see this out of all the classes and jobs.

They can also go deeper into the classes lore and have AF and relics for them. While WHM has a WHM Relic that increases the damage of Holy and things specific to being a good healer, CNJ could have a relic that does things specific to CNJ and being a better elementalist for the 3 elements it has.

[Jinrya-Geki]

you people realize BLM won't be limited to thunder and fire in 2.0, right? you people realize it was a quick-fix design choice to maintain balance while overhauling the combat system and keeping things simple and effective UNTIL 2.0, right? you people realize that the devs mentioned time and time again that it was temporary and things would be more fleshed out for 2.0, right?

okay, so why does this thread keep popping up and why are people still beating the pink pulp and mist that used to be the dead horse? fuck's sake. this forum is overrun with neuroticism.

No one but SE knows how black mage will play in 2.0. The only thing we have seen of black mage in 2.0 is meteor limit break, and low and behold a lightning-ish spell. They have talked about many class/job reforms such as monk, and shown tons of videos of Archer, Dragoon, and white mage. Talked about more reforms between warrior and paladin.

But they haven't even mentioned ONCE since the limit breaks anything good about black mage.

Beating it to a pulp shows the team that, we as players want more variety to our black mage/thaumaturge class than Thunder/Thundara. Fire as aoes don't even matter for trash mobs either. Any jerk with an aoe attack can take care of trash mobs with enough people. Which why sleepga is next to useless as well, there are so little chances to actually use it when everything dies in 5 seconds.

[fusional]

so, you're running with the assumption that the only classes/jobs that will see any work in 2.0 are the ones they've specifically commented on primarily because they want to change how the job works?

(in other words- this is a safe bet that the FUNDAMENTAL WAY BLM WORKS [ie: castz tha spellz omg] won't change in 2.0- but this doesn't mean NOTHING ABOUT THE JOB WILL CHANGE)

and in those "tons of videos" of whm/arc/lnc you, i don't know, didn't notice anything new or different?

and, you know, you're not maybe possibly forgetting that we had videos of those three classes and not others because that's what was available in alpha?

but, you know. black mage gonna get hosed omg omg. and, you know. making 247 (expletive deleted) threads about the subject is supposed to remind them NOT TO FORGET ABOUT BLM? just in case they were going to? even though they're redesigning everything else, somehow, BLM...

yeah okay. ooooookay.

[Firon]

BLM has become to weak, that's the issue. It's basic a thunder mage.

It needs the elmetntal balance. WHM and the lore are light based. BLack mages use dark arts and the elements... right now both jobs are a mess, not following story line, and lore.

THe other issue is available jobs out of THM.

It was a thunder mage in XI also whats your point?

[fusional]

It was a thunder mage in XI also whats your point?

nevermind the fact that you bought like 200 spells you never ever used- the point is... you had them! just in case! and that makes all the difference!

[Antonius2004]

You know what I think would be great for all classes and jobs, okay we know that at some stage after the launch of ARR we'll be having a cap raise, so, for each class and job make every skill learn't after lvl 50 class exclusive and job exclusive, meaning that for say Cnj and Whm, Cnj will be able to use all of it's skills up to 50 and past 50, whilst Whm could only use Cnj's skills up to lvl 50, from that point on Whm could get more of it's own exclusive abilities and with there being no new Cnj skills to apply there'd be room for Whm's new moves.

My grand idea would be to have Cnj from lvl 50 onwards learn it's own exclusive skills whereby only Cnj can equip them, whilst Whm would continue evolving it's own skillset. This idea would leave room for the exclusive abilities, allow each job and it's associated class to grow their own personality so to speak and become much more diverse than Whm just being an extension of Cnj.

[Reika]

You know what I think would be great for all classes and jobs, okay we know that at some stage after the launch of ARR we'll be having a cap raise, so, for each class and job make every skill learn't after lvl 50 class exclusive and job exclusive, meaning that for say Cnj and Whm, Cnj will be able to use all of it's skills up to 50 and past 50, whilst Whm could only use Cnj's skills up to lvl 50, from that point on Whm could get more of it's own exclusive abilities and with there being no new Cnj skills to apply there'd be room for Whm's new moves.

My grand idea would be to have Cnj from lvl 50 onwards learn it's own exclusive skills whereby only Cnj can equip them, whilst Whm would continue evolving it's own skillset. This idea would leave room for the exclusive abilities, allow each job and it's associated class to grow their own personality so to speak and become much more diverse than Whm just being an extension of Cnj.

What would be better is if they went back further, to like..... lvl 20 (I said this already)

[Alhanelem]

Since this thread has moved so fast I'm reposting what I said several pages back for good measure:

WHM has the spells is has for two main reasons:
1)Increased flexibility so as to not be helpless in solo play
2)Ability to defend oneself to some extent in PvP

Removing these spells would be detremental. I don't really give a rats behind if any WHM in any other game learned the spells or not, or what spells WHM "usually" learns. Let's just squelch developer creativity to match one player's vision!

I think these points are solidified by the Cleric Stance ability, giving you the ability to pull out your damage spells if you really need them, or maximize your healing for when that's your primary role.

[Radacci]

You know what I think would be great for all classes and jobs, okay we know that at some stage after the launch of ARR we'll be having a cap raise, so, for each class and job make every skill learn't after lvl 50 class exclusive and job exclusive, meaning that for say Cnj and Whm, Cnj will be able to use all of it's skills up to 50 and past 50, whilst Whm could only use Cnj's skills up to lvl 50, from that point on Whm could get more of it's own exclusive abilities and with there being no new Cnj skills to apply there'd be room for Whm's new moves.

My grand idea would be to have Cnj from lvl 50 onwards learn it's own exclusive skills whereby only Cnj can equip them, whilst Whm would continue evolving it's own skillset. This idea would leave room for the exclusive abilities, allow each job and it's associated class to grow their own personality so to speak and become much more diverse than Whm just being an extension of Cnj.

or WHM should be its own class, with its own personality, and traits, to begin with
It shouldn't take to lv75 or whatever, for a job to start being independent, and have a good skill set selection.