Removing elemental nukes from WHM

[Reika]

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't Aero and Stone have side effects that are very beneficial to WHM? Like, I remember one has a dispel effect, while the other has a DoT. They definitely do have a purpose if this is the case. That, and I think that WHM should have some nukes, so that they can DD when they don't need to heal.

Then again, I've never really used WHM (I only got to level BLM/THM to max before the end came. ): ) so maybe I am stupid and should leave.

Ive always hated that. Dispell and some of the other debuffs need to be their own spells. Aero is ok to have its Dot (which actually makes aero do more damage than the listed potency...) but everything else that 1.0 did with spells.... not so much. Having Dots attatched to some attack spells to make them do lesser up-front damage is fine, but a dispell? I never liked it. Dispell and Dispellga please.

Very much this. The job that could come from CNJ could be a Geomancer/Elementalist (Though, Elementalist would probably be confusing considering the localization of CNJ in other languages.) that would focus on using terrain magic.

The same could be said for THM. They could make another Job (Necromancer?) that gets all it's old Sacrifice and resurrection spells back.



I remember this faintly. There's an egg the CNJ's have, a Dragon Egg (I think.), that is associated with Wind. Their Patron Goddess, Nophica (I think.), is a goddess of Earth and plenty. So, naturally, it can be seen why those three elements were chosen. Earth for the soil, water to make the soil fertile, and wind to scatter the seeds.

I for one never said anything about removing elemental magic from CNJ, but removing them from WHM. Simple way to do that is when you equip that soul of the white mage, you cant use those anymore and are instead given other things for attacking. That is one way they can separate the solo aspect of the class (which they wanted) from the party aspect of the job (which they wanted). All classes and jobs need to be done that way to give reason to use the class after getting the job, but there never has been a reason other than THM because it was just broken like that. Classes can also be a whole different thing for party play that way, making the number of avaliable 'classes' to play in a party actually 16 instead of 8.

Elementalist/geomancer coming off of CNJ at some time is an excellent idea, and for them, potency increases on cnj base spells and more advanced earth wind and water spells.

[Shougun]

But they already have to do that (make element weakness minimal for bosses at least).

I will not (ever) be ok if WHM is the main DD for a stone or aero weak boss (and a WHM main DD holy boss should be a gimick boss imo) - BLM should be able to do more damage then a healer. If WHM can be main DD then BLM should be able to be main healer. Its why I keep supporting the zombie spell and holy spells (which are kind of elemental ambivalent) - something that WHM can turn into a higher dps by using zombie debuffs (that take time meaning overall lower, even though the numbers would look nice). Although you can just go without the zombie debuff and give an elemental ambivalent damage source like holy (even if you fight a monster with holy resistance WHM could still cure).


And I know from smaller monsters that are weak to stone that WHM will usually out damage a BLM (while the WHM wasn't DPS geared the BLM was).

[Mychael]

But they already have to do that (make element weakness minimal for bosses at least).

I will not (ever) be ok if WHM is the main DD for a stone or aero weak boss (and a WHM main DD holy boss should be a gimick boss imo) - BLM should be able to do more damage then a healer. If WHM can be main DD then BLM should be able to be main healer. Its why I keep supporting the zombie spell and holy spells (which are kind of elemental ambivalent) - something that WHM can turn into a higher dps by using zombie debuffs (that take time meaning overall lower, even though the numbers would look nice). Although you can just go without the zombie debuff and give an elemental ambivalent damage source like holy (even if you fight a monster with holy resistance WHM could still cure).

You're correct. BLM is broken. Forgive me if ever I denied that. However, looking back in FF history, what BLM is missing is NOT stone, water, and air elemental spells. BLMs traditionally have dark-based spells and non-elemental damage spells, either of which would more-than-satisfy your needs.

And I know from smaller monsters that are weak to stone that WHM will usually out damage a BLM (while the WHM wasn't DPS geared the BLM was).

While you may be right, I can't think of any instance where a BLM didn't pull his/her own weight, even if CNJ/WHM could out-damage them.

[Shougun]

You're correct. BLM is broken. Forgive me if ever I denied that. However, looking back in FF history, what BLM is missing is NOT stone, water, and air elemental spells. BLMs traditionally have dark-based spells and non-elemental damage spells, either of which would more-than-satisfy your problems.


While you may be right, I can't think of any instance where a BLM didn't pull his/her own weight, even if CNJ/WHM could out-damage them.

Hey... Dark spells !


I think you could find some solutions in that, for those bosses strong to BLM elements BLM just turns to his dark abilities.

+1 cause I forgot about dark spells lol

Edit: to the second part WHM should -never- out damage BLM except on say gimick bosses where raise kills them almost instantly (like in classic FF games)

WHM is a great healer and shouldnt also get to be a greater DD - that is very unbalanced.

[whoopeeragon]

Mychael's pretty much described my thoughts on all the subjects in a much better way than I have. I'm sorry that I can't get it clear enough like other people in this topic do, but I try.

[Radacci]

I looked at those old skill sets, and i thought they were awesome ;D Looking at that, it would have made more sense for CNJ->BLM, but that would be to OP, since CNJ has cure etc. so you'd be a heal/nuker.
It would have been better if Jobs were separate from classes; so you get CNJ->BLM, but BLM can only use the elemental skills, but not healing/protection; which are CNJ specific.
Looking at old CNJ, i can see it becoming BLM, Geomancer, WHM.
THM could become Necromancer instead, some debuff class.

The point of Umbral BLM is interesting too.
So it would make sense for THM->BLM/Necro. and CNJ->Elementalist/WHM/GEO.

Not to derail, but--even more simplistically, the shroud is a deep forest. It is abundant in soil, trees, streams (which keep the forest alive, and air (again life for the forest). Fire, ice, and thunder have no place in the shroud other than distruction.

Yet there's fire, ice, lightning elementals
Everything in nature isn't all about creation; Destruction plays a part in nature and creation as well. You have soil erosion which give gradual nourishment to the forest. You have volcanoes that spew out large amounts of minerals and nourishment as well; even though it might destroy the forest nearby, the forest will regrow more abundantly. We wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for a star exploding.
There's creation in destrution, and destruction in creation; it's 2 sides of the same coin.

[fusional]

you people realize BLM won't be limited to thunder and fire in 2.0, right? you people realize it was a quick-fix design choice to maintain balance while overhauling the combat system and keeping things simple and effective UNTIL 2.0, right? you people realize that the devs mentioned time and time again that it was temporary and things would be more fleshed out for 2.0, right?

okay, so why does this thread keep popping up and why are people still beating the pink pulp and mist that used to be the dead horse? fuck's sake. this forum is overrun with neuroticism.

[Jinrya-Geki]

you people realize BLM won't be limited to thunder and fire in 2.0, right? you people realize it was a quick-fix design choice to maintain balance while overhauling the combat system and keeping things simple and effective UNTIL 2.0, right? you people realize that the devs mentioned time and time again that it was temporary and things would be more fleshed out for 2.0, right?

okay, so why does this thread keep popping up and why are people still beating the pink pulp and mist that used to be the dead horse? fuck's sake. this forum is overrun with neuroticism.

No one but SE knows how black mage will play in 2.0. The only thing we have seen of black mage in 2.0 is meteor limit break, and low and behold a lightning-ish spell. They have talked about many class/job reforms such as monk, and shown tons of videos of Archer, Dragoon, and white mage. Talked about more reforms between warrior and paladin.

But they haven't even mentioned ONCE since the limit breaks anything good about black mage.

Beating it to a pulp shows the team that, we as players want more variety to our black mage/thaumaturge class than Thunder/Thundara. Fire as aoes don't even matter for trash mobs either. Any jerk with an aoe attack can take care of trash mobs with enough people. Which why sleepga is next to useless as well, there are so little chances to actually use it when everything dies in 5 seconds.

[kazaran]

BLM has become to weak, that's the issue. It's basic a thunder mage.

It needs the elmetntal balance. WHM and the lore are light based. BLack mages use dark arts and the elements... right now both jobs are a mess, not following story line, and lore.

THe other issue is available jobs out of THM.

[fusional]

BLM has become to weak, that's the issue.

by "too weak" you mean "one of the most consistently strong and borderline-OP jobs in 1.0", right? right? is that what you meant to say?

because if you think BLM was weak, i can *absolutely assure you* either you and your friends were playing it wrong, or you live in another universe.