Spiritbinding = Ex?

[Shougun]

here's the fun part for the non crafters. if you don't craft then the gil changes actually did lower your buying power. with them removing reselling gear once it's used they lowered the supply in the market. when the supply drops and the demand stays the same prices will increase.

who will benefit from the price increase? the crafters.

who will be punished by the price increase? the non crafters.

i am not saying an item that sold for 500k in 1.0 will still be 500k in arr, but i am saying with the same demand and less supply it will not drop to 10% of its previous cost. now an item that sold for 500k before you will likely be looking at 100k after. that has effectively decreased your buying power.

We still have to figure out what the materia system has in store. Also unlike crafters DoW and DoM can go to dungeons, FATES, and quests.

[darkstarpoet1]

We still have to figure out what the materia system has in store. Also unlike crafters DoW and DoM can go to dungeons, FATES, and quests.

i'm sorry, but i thought dow and dom were already able to go into dungeons. hamlets, and do quests in 1.0. here's a basic section of economics. this will be using basic gear with no materia added.

cobalt haubby
if you have 100 people looking to buy that haubby, but you have 100 people selling it then you have a stable crafter based economy. you also have another group of people that have upgraded their old haubby so they just want to sell it off to not take a massive loss. they are willing to sell it for anything over the price the npc would pay. that massively lowers the prices for the non crafters because it turns into massive undercutting. this happens because there is more supply than the demand.

without having the people selling the old gear and taking the prices down dramatically then you raise the prices in the wards. if there's still the same 100 people looking for gear and 100 people crafting and selling the gear then the prices will be crafter dictated. there is no longer a more supply than there is demand so prices will increase.

now look at it in gil. say you had 100k when 1.0 ended. due to higher supply than demand you could buy a pair of felt trousers for your dd class for round 100k. with that 100k you are now being reduced to 10k in arr, but with the demand being even with the supply that price will not drop to 10% of its previous price. say that price drops to 20k because of the shift in supply/demand. you had enough to buy the item in 1.0, but in arr it costs twice what you have so your buying power was cut in half.

that change doesn't hurt the crafters because most i know gather their own materials as well so it won't affect them. it will, however, effect the people that do not craft because their previous amount was lowered at a higher percentage than the percentage the items dropped in price. then add on the fact that the non crafters cannot sell off their old gear they bought to offset some of the cost of upgrading and it effectively lowers your buying power.

[AdorraEloom]

here's the fun part for the non crafters. if you don't craft then the gil changes actually did lower your buying power. with them removing reselling gear once it's used they lowered the supply in the market. when the supply drops and the demand stays the same prices will increase.

who will benefit from the price increase? the crafters.

who will be punished by the price increase? the non crafters.

i am not saying an item that sold for 500k in 1.0 will still be 500k in arr, but i am saying with the same demand and less supply it will not drop to 10% of its previous cost. now an item that sold for 500k before you will likely be looking at 100k after. that has effectively decreased your buying power.

If you don't craft then you go do some quests, (as all quests give you gil/gear/xp rewards) after doing some quests you than pick the most expensive gear reward from each quest and sell it, as it will not be bound to you if you don't use it. Have to understand that this is ARR not 1.0, lots of quests and quests will have "GOOD" rewards and not level 1-10 junk like they did in 1.0

Can also do some instances and sell the loot you get from bosses/chests, just don't use it, unless its an upgrade for you.

[Reika]

This will make fail finder alot more fail, due to people being really gimp.... Either that or SE is going to have make all content pre-endgame crazy easy so gear does not really matter, like every other western mmo does.

Going to be so many gimps around because they do not want to spend 500k for 5 levels.

You wouldnt be able to use 'fail finder' if you dont have the right Ilvl for the dungeon (if they are correctly doing it that way) and having the right ilvl requires you not still be wearing lvl 1 gear because youre trying to avoid buying anything until max level.

So basically we have 1 of 3 scenerios now

1) The crafters are screwed over... because everything will be next to worthless so people can afford it. Aka the 50k for a set of armor good enough not to hold back a group in dungeon.

2) Dungeons will all be laughably easy so gear pre endgame does not matter... aka like in WoW pre-endgame

3) People will just go into everything gimp because it is not worth the cost for good gear until you get to endgame.


all 3 of those seems pretty epic fail to me.

People wont do any of those for the reasons I stated above. We haven't really gotten a look at what the stats of gear looks like in ARR. its possible that as gear level gets higher, the attribute increases on them become much higher than what we saw in 1.0, making better gear important to have even as you level up.

here's the fun part for the non crafters. if you don't craft then the gil changes actually did lower your buying power. with them removing reselling gear once it's used they lowered the supply in the market. when the supply drops and the demand stays the same prices will increase.

who will benefit from the price increase? the crafters.

who will be punished by the price increase? the non crafters.

i am not saying an item that sold for 500k in 1.0 will still be 500k in arr, but i am saying with the same demand and less supply it will not drop to 10% of its previous cost. now an item that sold for 500k before you will likely be looking at 100k after. that has effectively decreased your buying power.

I don't think there will be much reason for prices to increase all that much, at least not on lower level gear. And honestly, those non-crafters should just become crafters so they wont have to cry rivers of tears because of prices. Leveling crafting will be crazily easy now that there will be an in-game recipe book too, and it will be simply click recipe and start. no more tediously going to fansites to find out how to make something. If people that 'dont have the patience' for crafting still refuse to craft even with that change, well the crafters deserve all their gils.

[Reinheart]

JP side doesn't seem to be discussing this issue like NA side, but I posted links to both NA threads talking about this subject with some questions I read in here. Pretty sure Bay and them already relayed the heated discussions to Japan so we should see some more update on this one soon I think.

[Taika]

I still haven't seen anyone explaining what were the issues in 1.0s economy and how this change would fix them.

People are saying this will be good for crafters, but how, exactly? Will there be more people buying gear than there were in 1.0 (and if, why)?

[AdorraEloom]

I still haven't seen anyone explaining what were the issues in 1.0s economy and how this change would fix them.

People are saying this will be good for crafters, but how, exactly? Will there be more people buying gear than there were in 1.0 (and if, why)?

I think in ARR a lot of people will be using quested gear, due to the new questing system and rewards via quests, so that will slow down the sales on crafted items, why I think the soulbound system is being implemented here to counter that and keep the economy going. In 1.0 players would buy armor from the wards that a crafter would make, than they would sell it back once they are done with it, what that did was add the items back into the market, so now a crafter would have a harder time selling their product as there was more of that product circling the wards due to people re-selling old items resulting in major undercutting to the point where many items became cheaper to buy than to make killing the crafting community (in the long run)

[NoloeTazier]

I think in ARR a lot of people will be using quested gear, due to the new questing system and rewards via quests, so that will slow down the sales on crafted items, why I think the soulbound system is being implemented here to counter that and keep the economy going. In 1.0 players would buy armor from the wards that a crafter would make, than they would sell it back once they are done with it, what that did was add the items back into the market, so now a crafter would have a harder time selling their product as there was more of that product circling the wards due to people re-selling old items resulting in major undercutting to the point where many items became cheaper to buy than to make killing the crafting community (in the long run)

Again like I said in a earlier post. The Gear rewarded in Quests could just be an Alpha/Beta thing because there's no Weaver/Armorer/Blacksmith/etc to make things.

[AdorraEloom]

Again like I said in a earlier post. The Gear rewarded in Quests could just be an Alpha/Beta thing because there's no Weaver/Armorer/Blacksmith/etc to make things.

You could be right, but believe it will remain the same, if they removed gear rewards from all those quests than people would just grind and not bother. After all SE is leaning more towards the questing path for level gains.

[Taika]

I think in ARR a lot of people will be using quested gear, due to the new questing system and rewards via quests, so that will slow down the sales on crafted items, why I think the soulbound system is being implemented here to counter that and keep the economy going.

We don't know how the system will work (how much gear we'll get from the low level quests) yet, but even if it would be like that, wouldn't they be just creating new problems (with giving players tons of low level gear for free) instead of fixing the things that were wrong in 1.0?

In 1.0 players would buy armor from the wards that a crafter would make, than they would sell it back once they are done with it, what that did was add the items back into the market

I don't know if this is true. I don't think many crafters bothered with making low level gear to sell it - not because the market was overflown but because they had limited bazaar space available and low level gear wasn't as profitable as high level one. Also, I don't think that many players actually bothered to resell their old low level equipment but instead they NPCd it or gave it to some new player (because of the same reason: bazaar space was limited so people would rather sell expensive stuff instead of cheap low level gear). I didn't find this an issue in 1.0, more often there wasn't enough low level gear available and this gear bind system would actually make the situation even worse (assuming the gear won't be just raining into player's arms from the quests in which case the gear bind wouldn't make any difference).

so now a crafter would have a harder time selling their product as there was more of that product circling the wards due to people re-selling old items resulting in major undercutting to the point where many items became cheaper to buy than to make killing the crafting community (in the long run)

I understand this is the argument people are making but if there was an overflow of stuff at the wards, I don't think it was as much because of the people reselling their old gear but more because of the crafters who were all selling the same pieces (and players didn't need to buy stuff from the wards). I think it was a problem in the crafting system: there weren't that many profitable high level recipes for each craft (as all players were wearing pretty much identical gear) so all the crafters were making and selling the same things, and because leveling a craft was so easy (and free!) that nearly everyone had a few crafts leveled and they didn't need to buy gear from others but could synth it themselves.

With the materia system where players keep blowing up stuff while trying to meld it I don't see how there would be too many items available at any time. There is a problem in the melding system though: as you have to have the melding craft at high enough level to try the meld (assuming it's double+), you will also be able to synth the piece by yourself, hence you won't be buying it from the wards. Changing the system so that players without crafting classes would be able to ask for multiple melds (same way they could ask single melds in 1.0) could possible increase the demand for those items.

For me, it seems the biggest problems in 1.0 (gear)economy were these:

- because leveling was so fast (too fast), people didn't bother gearing up before max level (they didn't buy low-mid level gear)
- crafters didn't bother with making low-mid-level gear (there wasn't low-mid level gear available)
- crafts were way too easy (and even profitable!) to level: everyone and their moogle had at least a few crafts leveled
- crafts had only a few profitable recipes each, so all crafters were making and selling the same things overflowing the market
- because everyone had the crafts leveled, players didn't need to buy things from the wards but they could make them by themselves or ask a friend
- because of the bad search system, it was nearly impossible to sell HQ / melded stuff at the wards

Why not just fix these issues instead of creating new ones and adding a system that isn't needed and causes extra trouble for players?