So Devs...Are we going to rule with an iron fist this time around?

[Firon]

I sincerely hate what RMT do to a game.
They ruin the economy and create huge, eliteists, separation gaps.
I hope for iron fist banning.
If you can't play fair..
Don't plat at all..

When people realize the problem is not RMT but the buyers, it's always people sitting there singing F!@# RMT when they are the ones keeping them around cause some of them are the buyers.

[Solace]

When people realize the problem is not RMT but the buyers, it's always people sitting there singing F!@# RMT when they are the ones keeping them around cause some of them are the buyers.

That doesn't solve the problem. People need to get banned to make a point.
This is real world stuff here, social psychology.

In the real world people will push the boundaries until you make them stop.
If there were no laws, we would be lawless.
That is why they need to implement judges, that is why they need to implement bans.
You need to make a point.

Point being: "If you use RMT or bot, you will get banned. Period."
Unless that happens, there will not be a significant deterrent.

If there were no deterrents in real life, every store in the world would be looted.

[darkstarpoet1]

i do hope they take more of an active role in banning bots in rmt's, but i really doubt they do. with him allowing add-ons and all it seems to be more of a giving permission to do underhanded things.

[Treach]

i do hope they take more of an active role in banning bots in rmt's, but i really doubt they do. with him allowing add-ons and all it seems to be more of a giving permission to do underhanded things.

Addons are not an evil thing and should not be considered so, look at world of warcraft which I think I can use as an example without pitchforks spearing my rear. You have the basic default ui where your mana bar is in the top left corner and you are tired of dragging your eye there from the middle of your 42" to check it, well lets make an addon to move it, maybe even re-size it slightly larger and while we are at it lets close those gaps between the action bar and make them smaller since we already know what action is on what bar.

You guys are acting like addons are packet bots (nasa) and that dragons aery still exists as it did from 2003 to finally being changed to force pop. Don't confuse a customizable ui with a packet bot.

[darkstarpoet1]

Addons are not an evil thing and should not be considered so, look at world of warcraft which I think I can use as an example without pitchforks spearing my rear. You have the basic default ui where your mana bar is in the top left corner and you are tired of dragging your eye there from the middle of your 42" to check it, well lets make an addon to move it, maybe even re-size it slightly larger and while we are at it lets close those gaps between the action bar and make them smaller since we already know what action is on what bar.

You guys are acting like addons are packet bots (nasa) and that dragons aery still exists as it did from 2003 to finally being changed to force pop. Don't confuse a customizable ui with a packet bot.

no, i am not pointing and saying all add-ons will be bad. what i am saying though is with the addition of add ons it will become more difficult to determine which actions other players are doing is an add on and which is a 3rd party bot. bots run outside of the game and are really only noticed by other players and reported. if you see someone doing something in game you don't do then you will actually have to consider whether that different action is an add-on causing it or a 3rd party bot.

believe me i do basic programming on the side and it is very difficult to determine if something is sniffing packets and then doing an action or if you are doing it yourself. the only real way se would be able to determine if someone is using a 3rd party bot after the add ons are allowed is to have a program installed on the person's comp and then report to them what you are doing. that would turn into major lawsuits because of invasion of privacy.

i'm not going to club you over the head for bringing up wow. i know most add-ons are great additions. i also know that by allowing them people will press the envelope to see how far they can go with the add-ons though. once people get to the point they stop allowing add-ons to do things they will then continue making the 3rd party programs. by doing this it makes finding those 3rd party programs even more difficult to find and punish because there's already add-ons that do the basics that advanced program does.

edit: i'm not comparing an add on to a bot, but what i am saying is that people will try to push that envelope as far as they can. they will try to blur the lines between the 2 just as much as they can.

[Wolfie]

Addons are fully traceable because they need to access the game API. They are also fully dependent on what sections of the API are exposed and how the developers want people to use the addons.

Bots are not limited and unrelated to addons, because they do not use any API and do not interact directly with any game code in any fashion. They replicate human behavior via automated button presses and mouse movements. They are completely untraceable in any automatic way and require large amounts of human investigation on a case-by-case basis.

Games that expose their API and are smart about it in restricting their usage like not allowing API that performs character actions are no more at risk of having bots than games who don't have an API at all.

[darkstarpoet1]

Addons are fully traceable because they need to access the game API. They are also fully dependent on what sections of the API are exposed and how the developers want people to use the addons.

Bots are not limited and unrelated to addons, because they do not use any API and do not interact directly with any game code in any fashion. They replicate human behavior via automated button presses and mouse movements. They are completely untraceable in any automatic way and require large amounts of human investigation on a case-by-case basis.

Games that expose their API and are smart about it in restricting their usage like not allowing API that performs character actions are no more at risk of having bots than games who don't have an API at all.

yes, this is true and this has nothing to do with what i am talking about at all.

yes, add-ons are tracable because they are actually part of the game. let's say for example someone makes an add-on to just kneel over and over. it is completely legit and does nothing wrong. i'm making an example and not saying se will allow any sort of player motion as an allowed add-on.

there are some of the more advanced crafting bots that when they run out of materials for one synth they stand to change to the next synth they want to do and then kneel again. if their list of items to create has used all of their materials then the bot kneels over and over until it is stopped.

when a person saw a character in the crafting position all day and then automatically start standing and kneeling over and over it was a good indication that the person was a bot. that was a pretty good indicator that they were botting and they should be reported.

now take that kneeling add-on i mentioned that is completely legit and is traceable by se. if you see someone just kneeling over and over you don't know if it's just that add-on that is legit or if it's the bot out of materials. that basic add-on has blurred the line on whether you should report that character or not.

that is just one example of what i mean by someone trying to blur the lines between legit add-ons and a bot because it has given some indecision on the behalf of the other players on whether it should be reported or not.

[fusional]

Addons are fully traceable because they need to access the game API. They are also fully dependent on what sections of the API are exposed and how the developers want people to use the addons.

Bots are not limited and unrelated to addons, because they do not use any API and do not interact directly with any game code in any fashion. They replicate human behavior via automated button presses and mouse movements. They are completely untraceable in any automatic way and require large amounts of human investigation on a case-by-case basis.

Games that expose their API and are smart about it in restricting their usage like not allowing API that performs character actions are no more at risk of having bots than games who don't have an API at all.

kudos to you for explaining it much more politely than me.

the abundant stupidity in topics like this is bound to give me an embolism someday.

[Wolfie]

Ugh @ how many people do not understand the difference between an addon and a bot. It's surprising you people even figured out how to register and post on these forums.

[Lady]

Ugh @ how many people do not understand the difference between an addon and a bot. It's surprising you people even figured out how to register and post on these forums.

I blame people naming their add-ons things like "Heal-bot" for this misunderstanding.